Friends DH is an arse for saying this

[Nuggy2013]

Long story short, friend wanted a water birth with her first DC. It didn't happen and had an EMCS, baby was totally stuck, heart rate dropping and generally quite difficult induction etc. This is something that still plays on her mind and she gets upset about although she says she knows it's ridiculous in grand scheme of things as she has a health, happy 2 year old DD. She is pregnant again and v happy but has tried discussing future birth plan with her DH. He is of the mindset, what will happen happens. To some degree, he has a point. However, her DH, like mine, works away and they need to try and make plans for childcare, birthing partner if he is unable to get home etc. She is desperate for a VBAC (her words not mine) and when trying to discuss this, her DH said 'what are you so bothered about? Just have a CS because you've never actually given birth, have you?' She has a really supportive midwife who is encouraging her to have a home birth/water birth whatever she chooses if possible so she felt that she may have the chance to achieve this and now she's heartbroken

AIBU to think he is an utter twunt? I want to support her but was side swiped by her telling me this comment. I also know her DH and with that I doubt there was direct intended malice behind his comment but he must have known how hurtful it would be and was more or less not switched on to how she was feeling???

The reason my CS baby 'got stuck' was due to being stuck on my back on a monitor. Avoid hospital I avoid that increased risk

I NEVER understand why people get so hung up on the perfect birth. FFS. Let it go.

My first delivery went hideously wrong in a similar way.

I did have a midwife mention a home birth for the second one, but my response of "NO FUCKING WAY, ahem, I am very sorry for swearing" seemed to put an end to that.

got my wish for my second, elective c section! thanks NHS consultant who realised when I was 38 weeks pregnant that my previous injuries made a natural birth too risky. I am forever grateful to that man.

If it is of any help my experience after an emergency section with my first was that the hospital encouraged me to have a normal vaginal birth with my second but in the hospital. Ended up as a high forceps delivery and it took much longer to recover from than the section. So wish that I had dug in my heels and had a second section. The end result is what matters, not "the experience".

I agree with Griffey on this. Not necessarily the best way of putting things but the DH will have witnessed the whole of the birth of first DC going wrong. Perhaps he is terrified this could happen again coupled with even further disappointment for his wife.

My DH's comments can tend towards thoughtless robust. Sometimes when he wants to be annoying he will tell me that I wasnt a 'proper' mummy as I had had CSections & hadnt been able to breastfeed. When he does this I threaten to put hemlock in his tea.

If someone said to me an elective CS was the thing that they believed reduced their risk the most (and that is a very complex assessment to make and always based on individual risk factors) and also made them feel least anxious I would support that wholeheartedly. Suggesting women who try for a VBAC are chasing an experience is no less simplistic than the offensive 'too posh to push' cliche. Many women do have elective CS because the idea of birth terrifies them - equally valid in my opinion and I would fight for them to have that right.

Her DH probably didn't mean it in a nasty way, but he doesn't understand, no man can, how a birth experience can effect some women, and sometimes it is truly detrimental, including how the staff communicate with you and how you're treated throughout. He can say what he likes because it's not him having to physically go through it and/or have things done to him.
In her defense, if she has the okay from a midwife for a VBAC and she's being "given" that opportunity why can't she take it? If she feels strongly, and not all women do, about a positive VBAC birth but she never took the chance then how would she feel? She could do a trial or whatever it's called, I mean there's loads of women that have had VBACs, why can't she if she wants to and it goes well?

She had an EMCS. I'm not going to brush all those who had an EMCS with the same brush but for some women they can end up traumatised from that experience. And others walk away just thankful that their baby was alive, so do those who feel traumatised (I know people who think women don't care about their babies if their births don't go well).

For some women they find it hard to get past an experience like that or any other traumatic birth, not all, but some. Two years on and she stll gets upset obviously means she hasn't dealt with it and accepted that she didn't get the birth she hoped for. She shouldn't be scolded for that! It's normal for some women to still feel that way towards their experience if it turned out completely different to how she envisioned it and I think a lot of it has to do with the care a woman recieves during the time of the traumatic experience and afterwards.

IMO she needs to be able to talk freely about it, maybe with therapy, because if she feels upset about one EMCS, which is understandable, how would she feel if she were to end up with a second EMCS? She needs to accept her first birth so it doesn't play on her mind and she doesn't feel as though she needs to 'prove' something by having a better second experience because... it may not happen for her. None of us can actually plan a birth, we don't know what will happen so really if you get pregnant you need to be willing to accept that you may end up with whatever type of birth there is that they use to get your baby out. I know that now after my own traumatic first birth which is why I'm not doing it again

I wont go so far as to say she has PTSD or birth trauma (or maybe she does but you and her DH don't know...) because a women that's upset about how her birth went and a woman that is genuinely traumatised from her experience because of lots of aspects are two completely different issues. I was upset about my first birth but didn't realise until I had therapy that it was because I didn't know why the birth went the way it did, when I found that out from a debrief I stopped being upset about how the birth went despite the lack of communication and not being informed about things because I gradually came round to the mindset of 'there's nothing that I could have done to change it and it would have gone that way had I given birth on a different day, at a different time, it was waiting for me regardless'. How we picture our births are our own ideal scenarios but how they end up going is the birth you were always bound to have. It sounds like she knows why it went the way it did but would maybe having a proper birth debrief with someone be an option she could look into?

bubbathebuilder Don't post much - but had to say that you are a voice in the wilderness of such horrible misogyny.
Thank you!
Yes OP, your friend's husband is a complete and utter turd.
That comment was deliberately designed to cut to the quick.
I am horrified by those posters saying the woman in question is just a drama llama or 'hard work' or 'fixated'
The 'right' medical decision is not what we are talking about here - we are talking about getting your head round what is, for most women, a traumatic experience.
FWIW - I agreed wholeheartedly with the doctors when they told me to go down the second caesarian route - and have become a strong supporter of 'if in doubt - get it out' (I made that up).
But it does NOT stop me, many, many year later not wanting to join in office banter about birth stories (because mine was not 'real'. I would still, all this time afterwards be very sad if someone. anyone - let alone the person supposed to love me - said I had 'never given birth'

Homebirth after Csection is entirely possible if that's what she wants.

'The researchers found that overall, the incidence of uterine rupture was 0.2 per 1000 pregnancies but in women with a previous caesarean section, 0.21% of pregnancies resulted in uterine rupture in women planning vaginal delivery and 0.03% in those experiencing a repeat caesarean delivery.'

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120313185848.htm

If HBAC or waterbirth was not an option then the midwife would not be telling the OP's friend that it is. HBAC is as safe as a normal homebirth.

Op - your friends husband is certainly being insensitive, but that maybe because he's uninformed rather than because he's trying to be a twunt. Depending on your friends reasons for needing an emcs last time, there is every chance that she can have a successful vbac or home vbac if she chooses. She needs to do her research and weigh up the pros and cons for her particular situation but just because she has had a previous cs does not mean that she cannot give birth at home this time.

People assume that hospital births and cs deliveries are risk free and this is just not true. Unfortunately all deliveries carry an element of risk. Personally I felt much safer during my home birth because the midwife is with you all the time, monitoring you and keeping an eye on things. I birthed at home after a emcs and an assisted ventouse delivery so it definitely can be done :-)

Men can't understand that. Even some women can't. Sorry to hear your friend's husband had been unsupportive. Maybe somebody has to explain to him, or maybe he just doesn't want to cooperate.
Anyway the best thing will be to prioritise and get a birthing partner other than DH if he can't bring himself to face it.
That's what I would have chosen in her place.
I hope she has a great second birth that would compensate for the first time (I know exactly what I'm talking about.)

Headofthehive55
dow it reduces the risks because you get not one but two very experienced midwives to help.

That's what is supposed to happen. In my cousin's case, 2nd midwife was an off-duty one called in, as they'd had a surge of babies being born that night, and the unit was really short staffed for sending 2 midwives out. 2nd midwife turned up halfway through.

My DS was VBAC. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have had a 2nd ELCS.

RaspberryOverload isn't it amazing how everyone has different experiences? I've had an EMCS, two vbac's (in hospital), and another EMCS and if I were to have another baby I'd choose to try VBAC again rather than an ELCS. If I had the money (can't have a HBA2C in Ireland, can't even have a HBA1C here without a private midwife) I'd go HBAC for definite.

icingandslicing hear! hear!
Everyone seems to be very keen to tell the OP's friend exactly what she is doing wrong.
Allow me to join you in wishing the woman a happy outcome - with a birth partner who is not the tosser her husband.
bubbathebuilder has shown that some men do get it - you seem to be only other poster who has not missed the point.

raspberry that sort of thing happens in hospital too. I went into labour as it happens when I was in hospital already with one baby. On that occasion I met the midwife after I gave birth.

I think we are generally saying the same thing - husband was not being supportive - please be as supportive of your friend as possible. It's a complicated decision and she will be weighing up the risks and making an informed judgement, just make it as easy as possible for her.

From my experience I'm inclined to agree with him. My first was very similar to hers. I tried a vbac for number 2 and ended up with another section. It would have been a whole lot easier to have an elective cs. I wasn't allowed in the brand new midwife lead unit attached to the hospital with a water bath in every room, let alone a home birth.

Perhaps he's worried about her but approaching the topic a bit clumsily.

To be fair to him, he was the one who had to witness his wife and not yet born baby in a life threatening situation. Maybe he doesn't want that to happen again.

Yes, he's insensitive but not malicious and she does need to just go with the flow on this one. I had an emcs and tried hard for a vbac second time but ended in a 14 hour labour followed by a emcs again. I'm bloody glad I was at least in hospital for it as I'd have hated a rush in without any gas & air, bloody love that stuff, lol

After my 2 emcs I didn't feel like I'd given birth tbh, I still struggle to see that I did but I just don't give a shit anymore, lol, far too long ago to care.

not the way I would have put it, but people get so stressed out wanting a perfect birth, but really childbirth is dangerous and people can die, so a safe birth much more important than a planned one.

It was a twattish thing to say.

Good luck to your friend, every woman has to weigh up the risks/benefits of home and hospital for themselves, it's a deeply personal decision where one side never seems to get their heads round the opposite side's view.

A CS is also life threatening.

A CS is also life threatening.

Yes, but it is performed in an operating theatre with all the modern technology available to try to mitigate the risks if something unexpected happens. Doesnt make it risk free but does mean it is risk managed.

He was insensitive and the 'you've not given birth' comment should have got him told to fuck off, but seriously, why the fuck does she still care that she had a section two years ago? What is really bothering her about it so much? She needs to work that out because she shouldn't be giving a shit.

I had a crash section after a full-on Exorcist imitation because my baby got stuck and they didn't realize. My DH got told to 'persuade' me to push, so he was holding my hand telling me it would be ok if I just did it, and all the time my baby was kicking shite out of my kidneys and I was screaming hysterically with projectile vomit everywhere. You can imagine how he felt when it went to crash. It's not something he wants to remember and funnily enough, whilst he thinks it's my choice, he's bloody happy that I'm not trying for a VBAC this time around.

Not read everyone's comments so apologies if this has been said, I also had an emergency CS and was due another baby about two years afterwards. My doctors wouldn't let me try for a natural birth because they were worried about the CS having fully healed. I had no choice but to have a second CS.

I was just relieved that my babies were healthy, that's all that really matters.