Friends DH is an arse for saying this

[Nuggy2013]

Long story short, friend wanted a water birth with her first DC. It didn't happen and had an EMCS, baby was totally stuck, heart rate dropping and generally quite difficult induction etc. This is something that still plays on her mind and she gets upset about although she says she knows it's ridiculous in grand scheme of things as she has a health, happy 2 year old DD. She is pregnant again and v happy but has tried discussing future birth plan with her DH. He is of the mindset, what will happen happens. To some degree, he has a point. However, her DH, like mine, works away and they need to try and make plans for childcare, birthing partner if he is unable to get home etc. She is desperate for a VBAC (her words not mine) and when trying to discuss this, her DH said 'what are you so bothered about? Just have a CS because you've never actually given birth, have you?' She has a really supportive midwife who is encouraging her to have a home birth/water birth whatever she chooses if possible so she felt that she may have the chance to achieve this and now she's heartbroken

AIBU to think he is an utter twunt? I want to support her but was side swiped by her telling me this comment. I also know her DH and with that I doubt there was direct intended malice behind his comment but he must have known how hurtful it would be and was more or less not switched on to how she was feeling???

As I live with DH and two grown up sons I am used to flippant remarks. He's a bloke and as such they are matter of fact. CS is still giving birth but not in the conventional sense and he's probably worried about the health of his partner and that of the unborn child. Not defending him but give him a break.

"Possibly, but then the OP says she knows the dh and with that, she doubts there was any malice intended."

And just to add, that comment may have come from him being afraid of what would happen to his wife / child in that situation. So bizarrely may have started from a good place - ie trying to use negative and emotive language to drive her to a (what he sees as) more rationale decision.

Not putting the fella down (I don't know him), I just doubt he landed on that wording by accident.

Nuggy just try to support your friend.

Here's my take ...

OF COURSE a C-section is giving birth! A lot of women have them. I had one. I never felt that I had let myself down, let my baby down or done anything other than the only way to safely get my incredible daughter out of my body before she died!

I had a counselling with a midwife about months later because I did have a very hard time, got an infection that was really nasty and potentially fatal! Sounds dramatic but it was hard at the time.

So I'd recommend, specialist counselling with midwife.

I'd recomment she looks into what is possibel, what is adviable and what is SAFE.

I have no idea if a home birth would be considered safe. I certainly would not want to lose my baby or my life due to a home birth. My friend had several safe home births but her last ended with a real emergency dash to hospital and I guess if worst had some to worst could have seen her other kids left mother-less. I am not sure how that is worth it, even as a risk, in anyone's book.

But her husband needs to know this is a serious issue for her and they need to work out a plan, who will be with her, who will look after their daughter, what will happen etc. Ideally, with the medical bits being spoken about with a professional.

Having a C section is still giving birth. He was insensitive.

sorry about 6 months later...

I think your friend needs some help processing the previous birth tbh. Understanding why it resulted in EMCS and how that is going to affect her next labour experience.

Her midwife shouldn't be pushing for homebirth after CS your friend has to be in hospital because of the risk prev CS scar tearing and if previous baby got stuck chances are it could happen again.

I had a previous EMCS and I'm well aware of the risks (considering ttc again but I a researching the risks first and sibling went through similar recently too)

your friend and he DH need a proper chat with a consultant (you have to see a consultant here if you are thinking of a VBAC) to discuss the risks of both natural and planned CS delivery.

I don't think that it necessarily follows that he's an arse or an utter twunt

He probably doesn't want the same as before for her & thinks that if there is a chance of that, why not opt for a CS?

"so she felt that she may have the chance to achieve this and now she's heartbroken "

I don't understand that bit.

I would be very very upset if my DP showed such a lack of understanding for a major life experience. It wasn't just that she didn't have the experience she wanted, she had what sounds like an actively traumatic time. I had a home birth after caesarean, I weighed up the risks and felt that I would progress better at home and reduce the risk, both to me and the baby, of EMCS. The midwives, to a woman, supported me. The consultants not so much. Tell your friend to get a doula if she can afford it. She will be able to support at home or in hospital.

He was very insensitive.

You are much more likely to have a VBAC if you try than if you opt for an elective CS.

I had a home birth after having a CS at a previous birth. Good job really as I wasn't sure I was in labour...

risks are what you want to take. I wanted to lower the risk if accreta and prevaria.

Why would you take even the tiniest risk alice ?

What was the context? If it followed something like her saying 'The hospital says I shouldn't have a home birth because I haven't previously had a vaginal delivery, even though my midwife's happy with it, and I'm furious with them', then he has a point.

I think maybe you misread Alice's post, Dowhatnow - there are risks either way, and Alice was saying she felt home birth would reduce the risks.

Maybe Atail but I can't see how it would reduce the risks. May be I'm wrong but I think if you are desperate for a certain course of action, you down play the risks. I can't see how a home birth is less risky than a hospital birth after a difficult first delivery.

He might not have intended to be malicious but what he just said was incredibly mean. It's basically dismissing her birth experience and can be seen to be saying that she isn't as good a mum as other because she had a Csection... obviously not true but I see why his comment has been taken to heart. Could you DH talk to him and say that perhaps he could apologise for that one and he didn't mean it like that and wasn't aware of how important it was to her etc etc. Maybe he just didn't want her to overplan and then get upset if things didn't go how she planned? like not getting her hopes up?

It was very personal - I would never encourage or discourage anyone else either way. I felt that overall my risk of intervention (forceps, EMCS) was lower if I at least started at home and I have a toddler to look after so wanted to maximise chance of a quick recovery. As I understood it my chances of home birth after CS were about 85% vs 70ish% in hospital, and I felt that I would not feel relaxed enough in hospital to progress. I had previously laboured naturally which increased my chance of VBAC, and had enough of a gap between pregnancies and small enough previous baby to indicate a lower risk of rupture. I also had a very low threshold for transferring to hospital, I agreed that I would transfer if I had the slightest scar pain. I also wanted the continuity of care associated with a home birth after risk factors were missed in hospital. So it wasn't that I was taking additional risk, just weighing up one risk against another, and being lucky that it paid off. My hospital birth felt much much more dangerous as one symptom after another of preeclampsia was dismissed as 'normal' by an ever changing cast of hospital staff while my home birth midwives were next to me the whole time.

Quite possibly, my DH speaking to him is probably going to be easier all round as I had a CS so they've got common ground in terms of worries experiences etc. Really had no thought about home birth after CS, really will talk to her about this and if she realises that she may not be eligible for one

I could have been more succinct there!

dow it reduces the risks because you get not one but two very experienced midwives to help. Being in hospital doesn't neccessily make things safer. If you are nervous going into hospital it can stop or slow labour which brings on a whole medical cascade, some of which causes its own problems.

Further CS can load the risk into the next pregnancy - if you plan to have a larger family it's worth considering.

I'm with bubba. I think you'd have to be pretty dim not to realise that 'you've never given birth, have you?' is going to go down badly. It seems patronising to men to me to say 'ah, they don't get it'. They may not get all of it, but I reckon they'd get that. So he's said that to make a point - you could argue it wasn't meant to be a hurtful one if you liked, but I think it was meant to have an effect.

I had a planned CS myself and to me the 'achievement' is getting the baby out alive, with the mother still alive. The pregnant friend here really needs counselling about her unhelpful attachment to the 'right' way of giving birth. I will be having another CS if I ever have my much-wanted second child, and that's fine because it's a small price to pay for the safe arrival of a baby.

Things can get missed in hospital. Like my baby's head being born.

He could have phrased that better.

If her first birth was so traumatic that she is that sensitive 2 years on then why in God's name would she even consider a home birth?

That's why I wanted to avoid a cs fridge as I wanted to reduce the risks to my babies going forward.

(Each time you have a CS you increase the risks of placental accidents next time) so you increase the chance if your child being still born or brain damaged.

I understand NICE guidelines recommend a VBAC though, since I think a CS has a marginally higher risk, and the recovery was much worse in my experience. There are a lot of things to weigh up and everyone will have different factors to consider.

You say you want to support your friend but telling her "she might not be eligable" for the birth you say she desperately wants isn't very supportive is it? Please do some research into VBAC (as I imagine your friend has) before you comment. RCOG guidelines state women should be supported to VBAC up to after 3 sections. The risk of scar rupture is generally thought to be 1:200, at the first sign of this you would transfer. Anyone that's worrying about that did you know most ruptures show signs in the mother first (& that rupture is a risk in any birth, not just a VBAC)? Being attended by 2 midwives gives a better chance (in my opinion) of minor changes being picked up faster.
If your friend wants genuine scientific information& support about the benefits/risks of repeat section/vbac/hbac I can reccomend the fb group VBAC support UK. Plenty there will of dealt with partners concerns/Unhelpful comments.

Fair enough guys. I admit I know nothing about this apart from gut feeling.

Surely though it's not the actual VBAC after a CS that is the main risk? Surely if a baby got stuck the first time then there is an increased risk next time and surely being nearer to emergency help is advantageous?