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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's unfair to blame the mother of child hurt by gorilla?

497 replies

pinkladyapple · 30/05/2016 22:02

Yes if she was holding his hand maybe he wouldn't have ended up in the enclosure. But he could have gone over/through the fence in a split second. And the zoo should have fencing which makes this impossible, surely?

The parents aren't being prosecuted for negligence and yet the Internet seem angry at the mother.

But then the people who think that also seem to think a tranquilliser works instantly, and the gorilla wouldn't react to the pain or impact of the dart.

It's sad and terrible though. For everyone.

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 01/06/2016 18:24

Etta I don't want to repost the comment I was referring to, as it was frankly ignorant and nasty on two counts, hence my bluntness.

IrisPrima · 01/06/2016 18:28

It's a lot easier for people to look at situations like this if they can blame the parents. It insulates them from it - as in "that can't happen to MY child because I'm a better parent". See also the McCanns.

It's bollocks, obviously. Could happen to anyone because it not humanly possible to watch your kids all the time.

Animals don't have rights, so where a child is in danger the zoo was right to take whichever was the quickest path to securing the safety of the child.

Those mourning the death of the gorilla have simply spent too long on Facebook having their moral code corrupted by the other melonheads on there. GroupThink.

FuzzyWizard · 01/06/2016 18:35

Love that article Grin

EttaJ · 01/06/2016 20:08

Iris ,actually animals do have rights. What a ridiculous thing to say. I guess you broke your moral compass or just never had one.

IrisPrima · 01/06/2016 21:13

No they really don't have rights. You can only have rights if you have responsibilities, and animals don't have responsibilities.

You think they have rights? Where are these rights? Where is the Animal Rights Act?

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 01/06/2016 21:25

If you run a zoo, advertise it as a family day out and charge entry (or even if you don't charge entry) you have a duty of care to your customers, whether they are 4 months, 4 years or 4 decades old. The Public and The Animals should be kept safely apart and only brought together in carefully risk-assessed circumstances.

It should not be possible for a 4 y/o to get in with the gorillas, simple as that.

The fault lies either with the zoo management for cutting corners on the 'red tape' of safety regulations or with the regulating authority (not sure which? Any US MNers know?) for setting substandard standards.

2catsnowaiting - the very fact the child was unharmed indicates the gorilla was not trying to harm it.

  1. The child was harmed and needed hospital treatment.

  2. The child was really fucking lucky not to be killed or permanently disabled by this event.

Staff on the ground did what they had to do when they killed the gorilla. It must have been a horrible thing to have to do but it was the only option they had.

Twirly Grin

IrisPrima It's possible to feel sad about the death of a splendid gorilla but at the same time understand why it had to happen.

Nataleejah · 01/06/2016 21:34

Iris you are right. Animals have no rights. They are expendable commodities. They can be loved, cherished, protected, but only as long as they don't cause humans an inconvenience. Then they have no right to life.
Simple as that.

DancingDinosaur · 01/06/2016 21:41

Twirly Grin

Fairuza · 01/06/2016 21:47

Are you a vegan then Nataleejah?

IrisPrima · 01/06/2016 21:51

Saying animals don't have rights isn't the same as saying they are expendable commodities.

Animals not having rights isn't my opinion. It is simple legal fact.

IrisPrima · 01/06/2016 21:52

If animals had a right to life we'd all be vegan. Which we aren't.

There's some really quite woolly thinking on this thread.

jennywren40 · 02/06/2016 12:06

It is the adults' responsibility to care for any child they happen to be in charge of, vigilance is vital, particularly in potentially dangerous places. There are reins. Even a wrist-strap would have kept the child under control. Neither parent took care to watch the child and an innocent animal was killed. That it was an endangered, beautiful animal is coincidental.

MyNewBearTotoro · 02/06/2016 12:22

Innocent animals are killed daily.

For meat. For sport. For leather. For fur. For shampoo. For medicine. For vaccines. For land. For protection. For fun. For population control. For entertainment.

How many of the people worrying about the 'innocent' gorilla are vegan? How many campaign against animal testing/ fox hunting/ deforestation etc? Why is a cow, fox or chicken any less 'innocent?'

And 40 dead tiger cubs in a freezer is at least 40 times worse than one dead gorilla but because there's no mother to vilify it doesn't seem to have had anywhere near the same response and public outcry online.

RufusTheReindeer · 02/06/2016 12:27

mynew

Completely agree...the amount of vegans on this thread is amazing

Perfect parents and vegans...awesome

CherryPicking · 02/06/2016 12:33

The zoo's to blame. End of story.

IrisPrima · 02/06/2016 13:34

I'm also in awe of all these parents who have never let their kid out of their sight.

Well done you lot Hmm

angelos02 · 02/06/2016 13:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LittleLionMansMummy · 02/06/2016 13:38

I don't think the McCanns is comparable with this situation tbh Iris. I can see how a child might accidentally escape its parents' control/ sight for a moment or two. I cannot fathom how you could knowingly and deliberately leave them asleep in an unlocked apartment while you choose to drink and dine with your friends, several hundred metres away, especially when there is perfectly good, safe evening childcare available. Damn right I'm a better parent than that. They were not forced into making a desperate choice, they had the means for an alternative solution and it was not an 'accident'. It was a stupidly naive decision at best, a fatally negligent one at worst.

But I digress...

LittleLionMansMummy · 02/06/2016 13:42

BTW by saying it's not an 'accident' I'm not inferring the McCanns had any involvement in the disappearance, just that they did not 'accidentally' leave their children alone asleep. They made a conscious decision. And one I'm sure they'll regret till their dying day.

Thefitfatty · 02/06/2016 13:43

And 40 dead tiger cubs in a freezer is at least 40 times worse than one dead gorilla but because there's no mother to vilify it doesn't seem to have had anywhere near the same response and public outcry online

Yup, where's the multiple threads about that? 3,200 tigers left in the world vs. 125,000 western lowland gorillas...but, no mother to vilify.

IrisPrima · 02/06/2016 13:56

There is absolutely no evidence that the parents were "idiots" in the gorilla case

EvansOvalPies · 02/06/2016 16:59

There appears to be a sort of hysterical backlash that is rearing its ugly head here. It is utterly, utterly tragic that the gorilla, Harambe, had to die, it is unanswerably questionable that Cinci Zoo did not ensure it's security measures (ie, you keep dangerous animals, allow people in to view, ergo, it is your responsibility to keep the two apart. ( And I am all in favour of zoos, if they have good enclosures and a good breeding programme in place to help endangered species). It is probably sensible that the poor gorilla was shot, as the little lad was in danger, no matter what 'lay-experts' may say. They weren't there at the time, they are not experts in ape behaviour. I am pretty sure the experts knew what they were doing, with heavy hearts. Although, I still stand by my opinion that it should never have been allowed to happen, and I hope they review their enclosures. (and that's another thing - silly, hysterical people saying about the gorilla being kept in a cage - he wasn't, it was a wonderful enclosure, with plentiful food, trees, shrubs, rocks and running water, like a river - as they would be used to in the wild).

Putting that scenario on the same level as either eating meat (some animals are meant to be eaten, and are therefore bred for purpose) and the fact that other animals are being killed wilfully (as in the case of the tiger cubs in a freezer - I couldn't find the original post from the poster who posted, but imagine it was for some totally illegal act, given that the tiger is a highly endangered animal) is actually quite ridiculous. I would eat a chicken, pig or cow, reared and killed humanely, as long as it is not an endangered breed. I would not eat a gorilla, tiger or elephant, as they are endangered and not generally intended for human consumption (in this, the 21st Century)

The two comparisons are, quite frankly, incomparable.

CheeriAndO · 02/06/2016 18:48

A quick Google search of 'zoo accidents' will reveal that these incidents are not as rare as some may think. If zoos are going to remove dangerous animals from there habitats or from reserves and display them to the public for profit then they should ensure the safety of the public and of the animals. It's that simple

CheeriAndO · 02/06/2016 18:51

Woops meant *their habitats

HelenaDove · 02/06/2016 18:58

Iris the McCanns had a lot of sympathy and a lot of money to help in their search for their daughter.

Kerry Needham hasnt had nearly as much.

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