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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's unfair to blame the mother of child hurt by gorilla?

497 replies

pinkladyapple · 30/05/2016 22:02

Yes if she was holding his hand maybe he wouldn't have ended up in the enclosure. But he could have gone over/through the fence in a split second. And the zoo should have fencing which makes this impossible, surely?

The parents aren't being prosecuted for negligence and yet the Internet seem angry at the mother.

But then the people who think that also seem to think a tranquilliser works instantly, and the gorilla wouldn't react to the pain or impact of the dart.

It's sad and terrible though. For everyone.

OP posts:
bottleofbeer · 31/05/2016 16:13

Easily accessed. Scuse my grammar there laydees.

Aeroflotgirl · 31/05/2016 16:16

Yes accidents do happen, yes me too, but there are different factors to this. I disagree with the zoo shooting, when they could have used a stun gun or tranquiliser dart.

NickiFury · 31/05/2016 16:19

They've explained lengthily why a tranquilliser or stun gun wasn't suitable and seeing as they're the ones trained and drilled and risk assessed in how to deal with those animals I would think they know what they're talking about. There are zoo keepers on this thread that agree it was the only course of action.

bottleofbeer · 31/05/2016 16:19

They couldn't. You tranquilize an animal so it can receive vet treatment. It's not effective enough in a life and death emergency. Whilst they get into the system the animal can behave unpredictably. There's no room for unpredictability in that situation.

Thurlow · 31/05/2016 16:19

It's been said by many experts that tranquilizing the gorilla was far too risky, as it's not instantaneous and if they had got the dose wrong the gorilla could have reacted very badly.

bottleofbeer · 31/05/2016 16:21

Tbf you might stun an escapee Willoughby or something. It never occurred while I was there.

bottleofbeer · 31/05/2016 16:30

The owner of my zoo hand reared two chimps from birth. The little ones you see in PGTips adverts? They're babies. As was Bubbles incidentally. MJ actually could only keep him as a baby. Adults are far too dangerous. As these babies grew they were put into enclosures. One day one of time did escape and got as far as a local promenade.

For some bizarre reason (that I never knew because it happened after I left) he was only stunned. The owner was lauded for this, what a great man.

In reality I think it was his bond with it because he hand reared it that stopped him following protocol. He should have shot to kill it. They're fast, there were pro around and it was luck rather than judgement it didn't hurt anybody. Oddly I've never been able to find news reports on the situation.

Southport zoo (long since close down) if you're interested enough to look for yourself Smile

bottleofbeer · 31/05/2016 16:31

People*

Puzzledandpissedoff · 31/05/2016 16:57

If I take my child to somewhere aimed at children, where no accidents have happened for nearly 40 years, then I would expect it to be safe for my child

So would I, but like a PP I still wonder just how much we don't know. Yes it might have been sheer luck it hadn't happened there before in all those years, but given the number of children who visit zoos that sounds pretty odd to me, especially if it's true he got in "easily" and "in a split second"

I genuinely can't know though - like everyone else I wasn't there

alltouchedout · 31/05/2016 17:01

I think it's reasonable to assume that a zoo will have made it impossible for a child to access an animal enclosure, tbh. I'm one of those parents who gets on their high horse about avoidable risks (like when parents leave children in the car to pay for petrol, or in bed asleep whilst they nip to a nearby shop) so I definitely don't excuse parents of their responsibilities to keep their children safe. But the child should not have been able to get in there no matter how distracted the mother.

AngieBolen · 31/05/2016 19:57

I know there have been several threads on this, but this is the only one I've posted on, so I'll ask here...has anyone else considered the child may have SN?

Did the 4yo's reaction seem "normal" to others? I have a DC with high functioning autism, and two other DC, but I don't think any of them would react like the child did in the footage I've seen.

I know it's really hard to know, as my DC have never been in a similar situation, but they have been in situations at that age where they have perceived threats that don't excits (smoke machines at parties for example) or not recognised threats which are real (thundering lorries on main roads) but I do think my DC, faced with a gorilla treating them like that would have been somewhat different in the same situation.

But SN or not, no child should have been able to access an animal enclosure. And there are some really un-observant parents out there, and zoos/theme parks etc need to take this into consideration.

PurpleDaisies · 31/05/2016 19:58

I know there have been several threads on this, but this is the only one I've posted on, so I'll ask here...has anyone else considered the child may have SN?

I can't see how speculating on that is helpful in the slightest.

AngieBolen · 31/05/2016 20:05

Helpful to whom?
None of the threads have been helpful to anyone, apart from letting people know their DC aren't actually safe in zoos, and parents shouldn't let hold of them at all.

It was my first thought when I saw the footage, though.

My second thought was that I wouldn't want anyone firing a loaded gun in the direction of my DC, unless their life was genuinely in danger.

Fairuza · 31/05/2016 20:09

What is a 'normal' reacted to being dragged around by a gorilla? Given the child is concussed and has just fallen 12ft too.

monkeywithacowface · 31/05/2016 20:10

Don't see any relevance about whether or not the child has SN and I have no idea what a "normal" reaction to being face to face with a gorilla is Confused

Child may have had concussion or been in shock who knows but given that he entered the enclosure wanting to be with the gorilla one can only assume that he didn't know he was meant to be afraid so therefore didn't act scared.

spanky2 · 31/05/2016 20:11

Baby reins. When my dcs were little we didn't go out without them and a pushchair they couldn't climb out of and run off. I blame the mother/adult who was meant to look after him.

monkeywithacowface · 31/05/2016 20:11

His life WAS genuinely in danger.

PurpleDaisies · 31/05/2016 20:12

I will rephrase. I think it's totally pointless and not particularly nice to speculate about whether the child in this case has sn given that it changes absolutely nothing at all.

I agree with fairuza. What is a "normal" reaction to falling into a gorilla's enclosure?

Shannyfanny · 31/05/2016 20:12

NO its NOT unfair

SoggyBottoms · 31/05/2016 20:15

Someone just posted this on my Facebook feed. It's long but interesting...

I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.

Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.

I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.

I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.

*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009

Flashbangandgone · 31/05/2016 20:16

Baby reins

For a 4yo.. Seriously? I've never seen a kid even close to 4yo in reins! (Hence their title... 'Baby' reins.

Aeroflotgirl · 31/05/2016 20:21

We have a little life backpack rein for our 4 year old, they have buzz lightyear, Spiderman, Starwars design Definitmy nit for a baby.

Aeroflotgirl · 31/05/2016 20:23

Soggybottom thanks for that very interesting post, it should be for all to read first.

AngieBolen · 31/05/2016 20:44

not particularly nice to speculate about whether the child in this case has sn ?????

Not....nice? Angry

And there is speculation because the vast majority of people atm don't have all the facts.

Is it not nice to have SN then? Or talk about special needs? Or consider how our own child may react in such a situation? Or whether our own child may or may not try to enter a dangerous animal enclosure or other dangerous area? Hmm

Absolutely it changes nothing at all whether the child has SN or not.

I genuinely hadn't considered the child may have been concussed. That would explain what I saw of his reaction to the situation.

And I don't doubt the child's life was in danger, I really don't. As I've already stated.

DollyTwat · 31/05/2016 20:46

The papers are reporting that this is not the first safety issue that zoo have had.

So it would seem that the zoo have been issued with several safety notices

Sorry for the Daily Mail link
www.facebook.com/DailyMail/posts/1344235242302887