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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

School fines. Did you pay??

90 replies

10oclocknews · 30/05/2016 09:40

I'm aware this is a very divided subject and one which has passionate supporters on each side of the fence however my question is to gauge how many people have refused to pay the fine and landed themselves in court.
I'm currently deciding weather to pay mine. I fully accept that attendance at school is very important and my son turns up at school on time everyday, and apart from this yr has had 1uuu00% attendance for the last 4 yrs. This yr however has been an anomaly. He has had no time off sick (lucky for us I know). At Easter I took my son out of school to visit family in South Africa and to combine with a memorial service for my late father. It wasn't a family holiday and wasn't done to save money (it actually cost us more to go when we did as it was actually over the Easter period). We went at this time as I'm currently at university studying midwifery which is heavily regulated by the NMC and I'm required to have 100% attendance in order to fulfill the course requirements. I only get 7wks off a yr. my husband also works and struggles to get time off during holidays unless booked a yr in advance. My sons (he's 8) Easter holidays this yr however did not start until 2 wks after Easter so in order to attend the memorial which was planned to enable all who were attending were available it meant I had to take my son out of school for 8 days. It isn't something we will repeat as I woukd not book a family holiday during term time. I write to the head teacher to outline the situation and did ask for work to take away. No work was given and permission not granted as it wasn't deemed exceptional circumstances and listed as a family holiday. To me it was exceptional and meant a great deal to me. However because of her judgement and interpretation I'm now being fined.
I've written some strongly worded emails to my LEA as I feel the fine is unjust at this time. My sons attendance is currently over 93% even with the days off. I'm debating whether to pay the fine as I feel this is an admission of an offence I don't feel I've committed. I'm not denying my child an education. However if I don't pay I'm worried I could land myself with a criminal record which could have serious implications on my future as a student midwife. I'm awaiting responses from the LEA and my local MP but in the meantime I thought I'd see if anyone has been in a similar position and what the outcome was.
Thank you xx

OP posts:

Shakey15000 · 30/05/2016 10:55

I agree, pay the fine.

I absolutely agree with your reasoning, you had little choice and it's unfair. I'm like a dog with a bone if I think something is unfair but in your position, for the sake of your career, pay it.

FWIW our LEA has the stance that unauthorised absences over 10 days may incur a fine. DS will be on 9 days UA in July. I'm fully expecting a letter and if they fine, then they fine and I'll pay it.

Jinxxx · 30/05/2016 11:03

8 days off school does sound like a holiday, albeit around a memorial service. I can see it would be important for you to be there, but at primary school age, would he/she really have felt bad about missing it, or could you not have made it a much shorter visit? Water under the bridge now, but I do think you should pay the fine and forget it.

MsJamieFraser · 30/05/2016 11:06

How much is the fine? And is it really worth the hassle?

lljkk · 30/05/2016 11:07

Bloody Hell, £900 EACH airfare for a much < 8 day trip. £2700 for OP if she went with partner & child. Who would do that?

ilovesooty · 30/05/2016 11:18

For heaven's sake it's nothing to do with the teachers and your relationship with them and no amount of sighing will alter that.

You knew the rules so get the fine paid unless you want a whole load of hassle.

Absinthe9 · 30/05/2016 11:28

It would bug me too, but frankly its cheaper to pay it now. Try and look at as just a fee you paid to go on the trip.

Frazzled2207 · 30/05/2016 11:41

I disagree with the rule and think you did the right thing taking your son out but just save yourself a lot of hassle and pay.

BeckyWithTheMediocreHair · 30/05/2016 11:45

Pay the fine. Stop directing your frustration at the headteacher when you have absolutely no idea of the context within which she is operating. You don't know the school's attendance figures. You don't know whether she is being grilled by the LEA / Ofsted / governors / DfE about every absence and under serious pressure to reduce the absence rate. You also don't know whether your circumstances, which were of course exceptional for you, are exceptional within the wider context of your child's class, school, or LEA.

So pay the fine. Then write to your MP, the Secretary of State, the leader of the council and the chair of governors voicing the concerns that you have raised here. Get involved with a parents' group lobbying for a change in the law to revert to the old system of genuine discretion for headteachers (which, incidentally, is what many headteachers and the NAHT would like).

WorraLiberty · 30/05/2016 12:04

I agree 100% with Becky

And there's no point really in arguing the point about whether it was an exceptional circumstance or not.

There is a list of criteria that most school attendance officers look at when deciding whether to issue a fine. A funeral would (in this case) have been exceptional but a memorial service wouldn't.

Pay the fine and get involved with the lobbying group.

AllTheUsernamesAreTaken3 · 30/05/2016 12:25

As teacher, I couldn't give a stuff if people take their kids off for a couple of weeks as long as they don't expect me to work overtime on their catch-up; and more urgently, I'm not expected to be responsible for their crap results. But I am.
This whole "no time off" drivel is just an exercise in buck-passing and ass-covering. The sooner they scrap it, the better. The Muslim kids at our school get two days off for Eid. Do they all fail miserably?

Verbena37 · 30/05/2016 13:12

I don't see how the school are getting away with charging you for taking time to go to your home country for your own late father's memorial service.
That's so mean of them.

Secondly, yes, if the school won't budge on giving it as unauthorised absence, agree about you paying it straight away and not having to then go to court.

I would pay fine now, then massively complain to LEA later.

Tbh, I honestly don't know now how any school will be able to justify charging fines, following on from that win for that family a couple of weeks ago.....and that was only for a holiday: not a memorial service.

Verbena37 · 30/05/2016 13:18

Oh and think of the ongoing learning involved in visiting SA, compared to staying in school for 8 days....

Economic geography
Physical geography
History
Maths....(air fairs, weighing baggage)
Languages
Science
PHSE

Far more stuff could be learnt in 8 days in SA than sat doing the NC in a classroom.

WorraLiberty · 30/05/2016 13:27

From the school's point of view, the ongoing learning can be learnt during the 13 weeks school holidays though, so that never holds any weight.

If it did, parents would be taking their kids out of school for ongoing learning in other countries left, right and center.

They're normally more concerned about how kids will catch up on the classroom learning they've missed out on, while on holiday.

Bolograph · 30/05/2016 13:31

Maths....(air fairs, weighing baggage)

You might even learn how to spell air fares.

Verbena37 · 30/05/2016 13:44

Bolograph I normally know how to spell air fares. However, for a short moment in time, my fingers typed fairs. Oops.
You could have perhaps put a or a after your comment to show that you aren't really being arsey grin].

NicknameUsed · 30/05/2016 14:40

"I don't see how the school are getting away with charging you for taking time to go to your home country for your own late father's memorial service."

Verbena The school doesn't charge them. The local authority does.

Details here

mummymeister · 30/05/2016 14:47

I hate this rule, I really do for all sorts of reasons.

I think the time to have made a fuss was when you put in your request and the head teacher did not mark it as exceptional. I assume she/he followed the school rules on this. when it came back as not exceptional that is when you should have made a fuss and proved your case - not a bereavement as such but a family celebration of someones life in a different country altogether. You could have gone to the board of governors at your school and also the LA attendance officers to try and get the designation of the trip changed to exceptional.

However, having got the form back to say it wasn't exceptional then you had to anticipate a fine following. I would just pay it and move on but also join the campaigners trying to get this changed.

Yet again we have a thread about school holiday fines and someone makes a comment about regulations on an open supply and demand market. putting aside the obvious that holiday companies are there to make a profit and that holidays out of term time are artificially low (because no one wants them then), if successive governments have failed to regulate that other well known free market, the banks, how the hell do you think they are going to get on regulating this market?

The time to make a fuss and a stand has gone OP unless you are prepared to throw a lot of money at legal representation.

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 30/05/2016 14:53

What about the man who went to court and it ruled in his favour? I thought that left a grey area about the whole fines thing now.

And he made no bones about taking advantage of term time prices. They went to Disneyland ffs, not to something as personal and important as a family memorial service.

I feel you have been fined unjustly OP.

mummymeister · 30/05/2016 14:55

I agree delores but think it is too late now to complain unless the OP is willing to go to court and to fight it with (expensive) legal representation.

the guy who won threw a lot of money at it. can the Op afford to do that?

hmcAsWas · 30/05/2016 14:56

Good grief - just pay

silverpenny · 30/05/2016 14:58

Ffs just pay. I doubt the op wants an expensive court battle. Just pay up and get on with your course.

JackandDiane · 30/05/2016 15:00

The Man who went to court had a particular reason to appeal, as far as I'm aware it was something to do with the way the local authority measured the time that she had been off. It wasn't just carte Blanche for everybody not to pay it

Tartyflette · 30/05/2016 15:11

What pisses me off most about this whole issue (apart from the sanctimonious bollocks from some quarters) is that the current setup does little if anything to address the rather more serious problem of non-attendance in the children of some parents who really don't give a bugger about place much importance on their children's education, and those children can have very low attendance indeed. (and we do know this goes on, and I am most definitely not including illness or chronic conditions either) .
But no, let's fine the parents whose kids have otherwise good attendance records but have been taken out of school for a week for a holiday or family occasion, because, let's face it, that's much easier than trying to deal with the other problem.

Tartyflette · 30/05/2016 15:17

The child of the Man who won his court case had 94 or 95 pct attendance at school and he successfully argued that this was sufficient under the law, which does not (yet) specify exactly at what level attendance should be, just that it should be regular.

oolaroola · 30/05/2016 15:19

I wouldn't pay.
You did the right thing. This fines business is ridiculous and the more parents who stand up to it, the better.
Good luck.

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