School fines. Did you pay??

[10oclocknews]

I'm aware this is a very divided subject and one which has passionate supporters on each side of the fence however my question is to gauge how many people have refused to pay the fine and landed themselves in court.
I'm currently deciding weather to pay mine. I fully accept that attendance at school is very important and my son turns up at school on time everyday, and apart from this yr has had 1uuu00% attendance for the last 4 yrs. This yr however has been an anomaly. He has had no time off sick (lucky for us I know). At Easter I took my son out of school to visit family in South Africa and to combine with a memorial service for my late father. It wasn't a family holiday and wasn't done to save money (it actually cost us more to go when we did as it was actually over the Easter period). We went at this time as I'm currently at university studying midwifery which is heavily regulated by the NMC and I'm required to have 100% attendance in order to fulfill the course requirements. I only get 7wks off a yr. my husband also works and struggles to get time off during holidays unless booked a yr in advance. My sons (he's 8) Easter holidays this yr however did not start until 2 wks after Easter so in order to attend the memorial which was planned to enable all who were attending were available it meant I had to take my son out of school for 8 days. It isn't something we will repeat as I woukd not book a family holiday during term time. I write to the head teacher to outline the situation and did ask for work to take away. No work was given and permission not granted as it wasn't deemed exceptional circumstances and listed as a family holiday. To me it was exceptional and meant a great deal to me. However because of her judgement and interpretation I'm now being fined.
I've written some strongly worded emails to my LEA as I feel the fine is unjust at this time. My sons attendance is currently over 93% even with the days off. I'm debating whether to pay the fine as I feel this is an admission of an offence I don't feel I've committed. I'm not denying my child an education. However if I don't pay I'm worried I could land myself with a criminal record which could have serious implications on my future as a student midwife. I'm awaiting responses from the LEA and my local MP but in the meantime I thought I'd see if anyone has been in a similar position and what the outcome was.
Thank you xx

[ilovesooty]

I suppose if you decide not to pay you'd better get a crowd funding page set up.

And start preparing the case to your course tutors when you can't meet the attendance target when you have to go to court.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

The Man who went to court had a particular reason to appeal

Considering he owns JMP Partnership, a financial/claims management company, maybe he was also hoping it might prove a nice little earner? In fact it seems he's already organizing "group litigation" ...

m.facebook.com/jon.platt.319/posts/10153512272750843?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D

[Verbena37]

nickname yes I realise that but it's the school who either mark it as authorised or not. If the head marked it as authorised, then there wouldn't have been an issue.

[BeckyWithTheMediocreHair]

If the head marked it as authorised, then there wouldn't have been an issue.

Yes, but to refer you to my earlier point - neither we nor OP know what contextual pressures the head is under to control absences, nor whether her authorisations are being closely scrutinised as is normal in many LEAs. The government have made it abundantly clear that they expect 'exceptional circumstances' to be a very rare occurrence.

Having worked in a number of very diverse schools, the summer term was traditionally full of parents wishing to take their children to various international destinations to see family and, very understandably, avoid the more expensive airfares. There are schools where this can have a significant impact on overall attendance.

[age81]

Rather than the worry of it going to court I would pay up, however I would take it in pennies just to show them how arsy they have been.

[lougle]

"age81

Rather than the worry of it going to court I would pay up, however I would take it in pennies just to show them how arsy they have been."

Pennies (and two-penny pieces) are only tender up to £0.20. So you'd be sent away with your pennies and told to bring payment in a legally acceptable form.

The OP took her child abroad in term time. It sounds like there was very little choice in terms of dates, but at the end of the day she put her attendance at university above her son's attendance at school and must now pay. Incidentally, I'm not sure that the courses are that strictly managed - I took a week off of my nursing course to get married with no problems whatsoever and didn't need to make time up.

[age81]

Really long legs? I thought money was money tbh, no matter what way it was given.

I'm sure they wouldn't refuse £1 coins .

[age81]

Sorry Lougle, auto correct to Long legs! Lol

[10oclocknews]

Age81 I love your comment 😂. Thank you for your input. Lots of very different opinions there. I was kind of hoping that others may have not paid and then it not gone any further but that doesn't seem to be the case. I may just have to pay the fine as you say and lobby later. I had already written to my MP in January prior to the trip in March to raise my issues. He replied to say he agreed the fines were unjust but he didn't expand further on what he would do about change. The Chief executive of the council also replied to me to say that the funds from fines go into admin for issuing the fines. It doesn't go back to the education system. The funds are not ring fenced so can be spent on absolutely anything. I've written some letters to the council and also to my MP again recently in the hope that this may go somewhere. I'm not sure it will but I firmly believe that to bring about change then things need to be challenged. Perhaps that's what saw me accepted into a very competitive midwifery degree 🤔.
My mum paid for the trip for us as it isn't within my budget. Being a student with a young family makes funds very tight. It was also not a cheap season to go as it was Easter so did not factor in the timing.

I do know it's the head teacher not the class teacher and as another lady pointed out the head may have very little power to authorise time off despite the law saying discretion can be used. I do not know all the details as she pointed out. I'm not annoyed at the school per se but the system and LEA and DfE.

Again thank you for the different perspectives xx

[10oclocknews]

Lougle at my uni it really is 100% attendance. Yes we can take time off but we have to repay all time missed and most definitely placement time. I've two young children and have had to miss some time off due to them being ill but I've then had to repay that time with home study and evidence. I'm sure you know the demands of a nursing course and to repay 2 weeks work on top of my usual timetable with two young children and placement would have been very difficult X

[lougle]

£1 coins is any amount.

[lougle]

Oh yes, I don't doubt it would be difficult, but you did have the choice - I think you'll just need to pay the fine tbh.

[TheFairyCaravan]

I'd be really pissed off at having to pay the fine. I think it's a ridiculous system, anyhow.

WRT the OP's attendance, DS2 is a first year student nurse. He broke his arm just before his first placement. There was a chance he was going to miss 4 shifts due to it being in a cast. Had he have he'd have had to leave and re-start his course in March. It really is that strict. Thankfully his arm was healed enough in 5 weeks to have the cast off so it was fine.

[Jojay]

I agree that if you disagreed with the HT's decision not to authorise the trip, you should have fought it at that stage.

It's too late now, and you should just pay the fine.

[AuntJane]

You've already taught your child it's ok to break the rules if they don't suit you. Now you want to teach him that you shouldn't accept the consequences.

Pay the fine, and let him learn that you can't always have what you want.

[10oclocknews]

Jojay I did discuss with my MP and the HT to say I wasn't happy however the HT said her hands were tied due to agreements with the local council. At that stage it isn't even certain that you will be fined. The fine isn't issued until the trip has taken place and the child returns to school on the date it is agreed. I know this because our trip commenced 21st March and returned 1/4/16 and the fine arrived 10 wks later. When I challenged this the council said they do not issue fines until they are notified by the school of the child's return to school. As it was the school holiday on our return the school did not notify the council until 20th April so they say they issued it within 33days. The school only advise you they will refer to the Authorities. They don't state you will be fined. Not all unauthorised absences result in a fine. Only those that miss a certain number of sessions.

As I said I'll probably just need to pay the fine and Lobby later. I do feel collectively people need to stand up to things they don't agree with as otherwise change doesn't happen. I know it's a radical example but look at the suffragettes (I'm not suggesting I'll be throwing myself in front of horses)....As another poster has said though that given my current situation and career choice perhaps now is the wrong time to be making a stand incase it all goes horribly wrong. There is more than just a principle at stake 😒😒

[BeckyMcDonald]

I've been in court for lots of these hearings. Every single person who appears thinks theirs are exceptional circumstances. I've never seen a single magistrate accept their stance. The magistrates apply the law and find the defendant guilty every time. Honestly, a holiday is not an exceptional circumstance OP, whatever you think of the law.

Don't land yourself with a criminal record because you're trying to take a stand. It's simply not worth it. Just pay the fine.

[Bolograph]

I know it's a radical example but look at the suffragettes

Yes, because getting a long-haul holiday on the cheap is exactly like the exclusion of women from the electoral system.

There is more than just a principle at stake

What do we want? Cheap holidays! When do we want them? During term time!

[JackandDiane]

i have also had lots of these cases before me. THe parents invariably don't understand the law. Just hate the Head!

[BeckyWithTheMediocreHair]

I know it's a radical example but look at the suffragettes

[Verbena37]

lougle midwifery is very strict about time off. You have to have 100% attendance and if you're ill or take time off, you must make up the hours in your own time within the time frame of the course. If you have too much time off (even if it's sickness), they remove you from the course and then put you down a year.

[Lovecat]

93% attendance is not considered good these days - 95% and above is the criteria schools are given. The local authority will issue a fine, not the school. If the Governors of the school have voted to follow the local authority's guidelines (ie no time off unless for bereavement or VERY exceptional circumstances) then the HT's hands are tied.

If you don't agree with the process by all means lobby against it (perhaps stand as a Governor yourself?) but don't blame the school.

[lougle]

Yes, I'm sure. I only missed lectures and they were all online so I could catch up in my own time. I didn't miss placement hours

[10oclocknews]

As stated whilst I value everyone's input I was just wondering if anyone had challenged their fine and the outcome. I'd also like to point out that as stated in my original post the time off wasn't to save money and get a cheap holiday. Going during Easter was actually more expensive than going when my son was off. He didn't get Easter off. His holidays were April. We went to South Africa for my fathers memorial with extended family. It wasn't a beach holiday in the sun x

[age81]

Op clearly stated that the holiday was more expensive of of school time and also it was a memorial for her dad, not just a trip on her jollies when she felt like it.

Hate that some don't read the facts (OK, we might skim through messages from other posters, but the ones that the op has given actual facts).