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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if a woman complains of domestic violence, our first response should not be calling her a liar.

128 replies

mrgrouper · 28/05/2016 08:18

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36403396

Amber Heard has been granted a restraining order against Johnny Depp. There are photos circulating on the Internet of her with a nasty bruise over her right eye which she states occurred Depp caused by throwing an iPhone at her.

Many comments on Twitter claim the photos are faked, (apparently there was a photo taken a day later which does not show a bruise), people calling her manipulative and others pointing out as she is an actress, this is probably just a Machiavellian piece of show acting.

I have been through DV on two occasions and each time was branded a liar. About time both male and female victims of DV are supported and not shamed.

OP posts:
Inkanta · 30/05/2016 19:54

I am interested in this story - I'd like to know what happened. Snippets of information is all we are getting or may ever get, but I can't help but wonder what is the whole story.

One of the truths so far is that JD's mother was dying and then died just a few days ago. I assume from that that things have been tense and stressful in the household.

Was this an angry incident or on-going domestic violence. Were they both angry and stressing out when this happened? Are they still very angry with each other?

On another level JD doesn't look happy or healthy and Amber appears to have a feisty personality which the public generally don't like.

What is truth? Would love to know.

BillSykesDog · 30/05/2016 21:40

Any chance you might admit the point that you're not neutral, Bob?

No. Because the only thing I know about whatever happened in this incident is that I know nothing. Unfortunately I have not yet developed the ability to assess people's truthfulness in the basis of their genitalia unlike some people on this forum (apparently).

But I'm not going to pretend that legally speaking AH isn't behaving extremely questionably when she clearly is. Nor am I going to pretend that it's not going to affect her case and that a court won't draw inferences from her lack of report when it clearly will.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens at the next hearing. But if she doesn't file a report before it happens that is going to raise big questions regarding her case. I really don't understand why pointing that out somehow makes me not 'neutral' when it's a bald fact rather than anything to do with a preference for either side in the case.

I think they're a pair of laughable arseholes TBH. But unless a police report is filed I suspect JD is going to be the arsehole with the law on his side.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 30/05/2016 22:07

You are making the assumption that she wants to press charges

Many women just want to feel safe and get out of the relationship which filling for a divorce usually indicates that's the case

venusinscorpio · 30/05/2016 22:36

You are letting your own prejudices cloud your judgement, that's why you're not neutral. You have no idea why a victim of DV might hypothetically not wish to press criminal charges, do you?

bonnie1981 · 30/05/2016 23:02

I don't get why she hasn't pressed charges? She's happy for the media and the judge to know he was abusive but the only thing she's doing about it is getting a divorce? Surely you'd want to protect anyone else he could abuse?

As someone who has witnessed DV and has friends currently dealing with leaving DV - I don't believe Amber at all. and I believe in time others will see they were fools to.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 30/05/2016 23:11

She is happy for the judge to know he was abusive

Hmm yes that's right because she applied for a restraining order think about it .....

As for the media has she spoken to the media?

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 30/05/2016 23:14

And seeing as you know so much about DV you should know that not many victims do press charges and when they do often they are dropped as they are put under pressure from family

She can not save any other women only an abuser can save another women from being a victim of abuse and that is by not abusing them

bonnie1981 · 30/05/2016 23:19

I'm not a fan of either of them

time will tell.

venusinscorpio · 30/05/2016 23:25

I'm also a victim of DV bonnie. I don't know the truth any more than you and your friends do. What I do know is that if you post any more of your judgemental, ignorant victim blaming crap this thread will be deleted, just as you might have noticed the other one was.

A11TheSmallTh1ngs · 30/05/2016 23:54

I think trying the victim is besides the point.

I believe Amber Heard is a gold digger and a fame whore and probably happily did drugs with Johnny Depp through the marriage.

So what?

Gold diggers and fame whores can still be victims of dv. Instead of trying to make Amber Heard seem like able, we should be arguing that unlike able people still deserve protection.

BillSykesDog · 30/05/2016 23:59

Right. How can I explain this so you can understand? Even though I have done about fifty times already.

AH has a temporary restraining order which expires soon. They are basically given pretty much on demand with a very low evidence threshold because this is the best way of ensuring that nobody in genuine danger is refused immediate protection because they can't immediately get proof.

But victims need restraining orders extended they are expected to use the time between hearings to gather the necessary information to provide evidence which backs up the claims that they have made. And the absolute first and most essential component of that is a police report.

These are courts. They deal in evidence. They deal in facts. It's not Mumsnet. They don't make decisions on the basis that people seem nice and surely a woman wouldn't tell a lie.

They have been presented this week with a woman who has told them that she is in such danger from JD she is in fear of her life and needs immediate protection. Yet in a few weeks potentially they are going to be faced by the same woman telling them that despite being in fear of her life she has failed to take the minimum expected step needed in order for that protection to continue: filing a police report. There are circumstances where this might be accepted, but again, these circumstances will need to have some sort of provable basis and will also be weighed up against her claim of being in fear of her life. So a court might well accept that someone suffering from severe PTSD who can't leave the house, is struggling to interact with anybody and has little support to make a filing might be given some leeway. A woman who is engaging well with the legal process, has good legal representation and seems to be operating in a pretty functional way? Well a court is going to question what reason she has exactly for not making a police report that outweighs her apparent fear for her life. And she is going to have to answer that. And she will need a fucking good answer. Because a court is perfectly entitled to view not wanting to hurt his career or not wanting to go through a criminal trial or a myriad of other reasons as far, far too flimsy to plausibly justify jeopardising a restraining order which is apparently needed because of a genuine fear for her life. They're going to question if they can accept that fear for life is genuine if it can be dismissed for flimsy reasons. And even if a restraining order is genuinely needed if the petitioner is not prepared to take very simple steps in order to secure one.

They're courts. They deal in justice for everybody involved. They also don't want to look like tits. So no, they're not going to simply say 'Oh no, that's fine, we'll just keep giving you orders in your favour with no evidence and no evidence of any attempt to procure any evidence because you seem like a really nice woman and he seems like a bit of a rotter'.

It's also slightly laughable for people who are confidently declaring that JD must be guilty on the basis of the fact an untested allegation has been made to accuse me of being prejudiced. I would say that determining truth based on possession of a vagina is pretty extreme as far as prejudice goes.

Pointing out that courts operate on the basis of evidence and facts...not so much.

venusinscorpio · 31/05/2016 00:13

It doesn't matter what you or a court thinks about her behaviour. Victims of violent assaults do not always behave in predictable ways. It has no bearing on what actually happened, however it may affect a court case. How many more times should I explain that to you?

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 31/05/2016 00:14

Yes I do understand

I am just not trying to pull apart someone's actions when all they are wanting to do is get a divorce and put in place a retraining order while they get their life in order who knows what her next step will be

she feared for her life when she was being attacked

Something many victims of dv can relate too but that does not mean she lives in constant fear of him killing her but can still fear him

Carry on pulling apart her decisions made in what is a very stressful time. I and others can read through it we see it time and time again

How odd (a phrase you have used on quite a few occasions) is that you think no one can see though your posts

BillSykesDog · 31/05/2016 00:33

It doesn't matter what you or a court thinks about her behaviour.

Er, yes it does. It matters very much indeed. In fact, the courts view is pretty much the only one which does matter. And if they think she's fucking them about, which is a very, very likely conclusion given the lack of a police report, then yes, the city's view is the only one that matters at all.

Carry on pulling apart her decisions made in what is a very stressful time. I and others can read through it we see it time and time again

I really couldn't give a shiny shit what you think you can see flower. In fact since we're talking about 'odd': I rather think making outlandish insinuations because you don't seem to be able to deal with the fact that some people are rather attached to old fashioned concepts like due process, justice and evidence is extremely odd.

As I said ^^ the court are ultimately they only people whose view matters. And if she still hasn't made a police report in 3 weeks time that court is not going to care that someone on Mumsnet thinks that AH is under too much stress to make a police report.

What exactly is your problem with the concept that legal institutions might quite like to see evidence and expect cooperation from petitioners to obtain it? It's a pretty basic cornerstone of justice.

BillSykesDog · 31/05/2016 00:44

Anyway, it's absolutely pointless going round in circles. The next hearing is on the 17th of June. And it will be very interesting to see what happens then.

bonnie1981 · 31/05/2016 07:25

Billsykesdog has made an excellent post.

I'd like to point out that I'm not "victim blaming". To do so, I would have to be saying she either deserved it or should have done xyz to avoid it and as far as I can see I have not said either thing.

I'm simply saying I do not believe her which is something else entirely. I suspect as BSD said above, that nothing further will come from her regarding evidence. I would very much like JD to present evidence actually.

venusinscorpio · 31/05/2016 08:10

Well done for completely missing the point of my last post, Bill.

BranTriLlygaid · 31/05/2016 10:00

BillSykesDog is one of the few looking at this sensibly, rather than emotively. The police found no evidence a crime/dv had happened and she didn't file a report to dispute what they claim at any point. Perhaps she was too scared at the time, but the fact remains that the police couldn't make a supportive statement for her either way. So yes, it will be down to the courts to decided, she will have to produce evidence that she is a victim of domestic violence.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 31/05/2016 10:05

I can well believe that feeling distraught over his maternal death and a pending divorce that JD might well have lost his shit, and thrown that phone

BranTriLlygaid · 31/05/2016 10:19

I can well believe that feeling distraught over his maternal death and a pending divorce that JD might well have lost his shit, and thrown that phone

Yes, but that's just making up your own narrative. Another person could say 'I could believe she didn't want to be publicly blasted for filing papers hours after his mother died, and made up a story to gather support'. Have to look at the facts given, not our own version of events.

Pinkheart5915 · 31/05/2016 10:25

I wouldn't speculate about either of them, IMO until proven nobody is guilty but I've lived with my solictor DH for too long.

I don't think asking for $50,000 a month spouse support (which the judge denied anyway) really help her cause with some peoples opinions.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 31/05/2016 10:32

Yes, but that's just making up your own narrative

erm isn't that what everyone on this thread is doing Confused

no one knows do they , apart from the 2 central parties

BranTriLlygaid · 31/05/2016 10:35

Yes, stop, that was my point. I've been saying in all my posts that need to stick the the facts given, it's not a case of 'believing' one side or the other at the moment.

Lightbulbon · 31/05/2016 11:00

This is why I didn't and don't tell anyone about the DV that happened to me.

Everyone saw him as a 'nice' guy. They wouldn't have believed what he was like behind closed doors.

MitzyLeFrouf · 31/05/2016 11:07

I very much take a neutral position because I'm of the view that neither side should be believed or disbelieved until a case has been through due process.

This is my feeling on the matter too. Let the courts decide.

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