to think most 30 somethings have a good life

[howiloveanicecupoftea]

I was talking to DP yesterday at how comfortable and lucky most 30 somethings lives seem to be these days. He said he didn't think that was the case at all but from what I see everyone has nice families with well dressed kids, nice holidays, cars, clothes etc. I didn't know if I was deluded or whether that really is the case- or not as DP seems to think!

AYBU?

Yes.

iloveanicecupoftea Thu 26-May-16 11:50:03
I was talking to DP yesterday at how comfortable and lucky most 30 somethings lives seem to be these days.

I disagree. Many cannot afford to get their own home and some never will probably - depending on where they live
Many will not be able to have a family either because they do not have their own home and will not be able to be able to afford a child.

They will have worked hard, gone to university and have huge debts for most of their lives.

MaliceInWonderland78 Thu 26-May-16 13:15:41

"Where people would be deemed not to have a nice life, I've found it's due to the following

1. Doing a shit degree at a shit university;
2. Being of below-average intelligence;
3. Having children outside of marriage;
4. Having different priorities (lots of travel and 'experiences')
5. Blended families (I'm from a step-parent family so calm down)
6. Over-extending themselves and having the innate belief that they must immediately have everything their little hearts desire.
7. Not being able to count!"

Right. I see you do not allow for:

giving birth to a child with SN

longterm adult illness

longterm illness of child

Besides, surely a significant proportion of the population must be under average intelligence, because that is what an average is, isn't it?

And the way the job market works, not everybody can get a well paid job because, however clever the applicants are, most firms don't need 500 managers and no floor staff.

If we could invent a drug which turned everybody into a MENSA member and everybody worked hard enough to get As in every exam, society would still need more relatively low paid workers than high earning top managers.

I work with lots of 30 something's, mostly middle class and lots who are professionals and have noticed that a far more of them don't own their own homes and live in one or two bed places than when I was the same age. By 26 I owned a three bed semi with large garden in outer London and had lots of disposable income on top of paying the mortgage. We were extremely fortunate compared to 20/30 something's now.

cory

My list was by no means exhaustive. And was predicated on my own experience (people I know)

Correct. Necessarily a significant proportion of the population will be of below average intelligence. I've just noted that where that is the case, those people aren't doing as well. And the one that is, is doing well, due to an inheritance.

your point with regards to jobs, sort of fees into the point I was making about university.

"your point with regards to jobs, sort of fees into the point I was making about university."

There are plenty of people with good degrees in useful subjects who are working in jobs below their capacity, not because there is anything wrong with them, but simply because educating more people to a higher level will not necessarily affect the number of highly paid jobs that firms require- and if a firm doesn't need another manager they won't hire on just because the second and third applicants were also ever so clever. And if they cannot hire the lower paid workers for the managers to manage, there won't be any managing jobs either.

In my own case, I am better paid per hour than the support staff who work in the same office. It would be utterly patronising for me to tell them that they could get my job if they only trained better and worked harder when we all know that unless somebody did their less well paid jobs the premises on which my job depends would collapse and nobody would be able to do it. I depend on their work, it would be completely stupid for me to think nobody should have to do it.

I have to say, having tried to make it as an academic I laughed at the suggestion that if people weren't doing financially well it indicates a lack of intelligence. Academia is a grim field right now. I have friends who are doing amazing things in their field, and struggle to pay rent, let alone mortgage.

And yeah, it was their choice, but I presume all the high earners do want someone running the universities or doing research.

OP, you use the phrase 'these days' - what was it like in your day? Many 30-somethings appear to have a nice life but the house will be mortgaged and there's a lot of easy credit now which hasn't always been the case. There's probably a scramble to make payments at the end of each month with not a lot to spare, even though they appear to be well-dressed and have a nice car, etc. Plus there's always the threat of redundancy in these uncertain times. If you live in a 'naice' area people often struggle to keep up appearances.

I'm in my mid thirties as a most of my friends and I would say that a huge factor in how "good" their lives are is the level of family support. The vast majority that own their own homes got on the ladder with help from their parents. Those who can afford lots of holidays are those who get some sort of free childcare from their families.

We don't own our home but can afford to rent a nice house in a lovely area. Dp has a good job and I'm a SAHM and we have two young dc. Our kids are well cared for, wear nice clothes etc. I would say we have a good life but not at all how you describe it.

these days to me:

increase mortgage to furnish or renovate house?
leased car?
mortgage in excess of 40% of net salary?
interest only mortgage?
30 year mortgage?
company car?
family provide childcare to children under the age of 5 saving the parents 1k+ per month?
parents downsize and give children equity to fund a larger home?

there are sooo many reasons why or how people appear to have a good lifestyle.

not bitter at all

Cory

Without going too far off topic, the problem is this:

Despite the pissing and whinging from undergraduates, the cost of a university education is still subsidised. This causes a disconnect between the wants of the student and the needs of society, and resulted in too many people, going to too many 'universities' (I use the term advisedly) to do degrees which were of little or no use to man nor beast.

these 'educated' half-wits then leave university with a degree which doesn't really benefit anyone, and understandably they feel pretty hard done by.

Tabs Again, I make the point that I was talking about my experience. We have one academic in our circle. They seem to be doing quite well.

I am sorry, but you do sound completely deluded.

Early 30s, my life was great: interesting job, small-ish flat with a mortgage that didn't stretch one salary (and we had 2), so lots of disposable income for holidays, weekends away and time off for travelling, no children so complete freedom BUT we were rarely home before 10 or 11pm and back in the office for 7am the following day. So yes, there was a part of luck (being healthy and happy) but a lot of hard work involved.

It's obvious that many people do not have the same kind of job and lifestyle. I couldn't have had that life if I had had my kids then for a start! Frankly, most people around me seem to be struggling one way or another.

I wanted to say so much but Kondos did a great job. Such a good scene to reference!

I am 32. My partner is 12 years older than me. We own a lovely Victorian house, have an almost 2 year old ds (who is delightful and lovely), 2 gorgeous cats and a car.

Dp works 5 days a week and I have ds. I work 2 days a week and dp has ds. So we rarely see each other but both get lots of time with ds. I have an ongoing health problem for which I regularly have surgery- most recent was last week. We have no family near us. One of our cats got a blocked bladder a few years ago and I worked extra shifts in my job to pay for his treatment.

I save vouchers and tokens to get money off our shopping.

So we look well off but like many people we have our own struggles.

In order to afford ds' 2nd birthday present and cake I have agreed to extra shifts.

Easy to judge us but we do work and try hard.

MaliceInWonderland78 Thu 26-May-16 13:52:02

"Despite the pissing and whinging from undergraduates, the cost of a university education is still subsidised. This causes a disconnect between the wants of the student and the needs of society, and resulted in too many people, going to too many 'universities' (I use the term advisedly) to do degrees which were of little or no use to man nor beast.

these 'educated' half-wits then leave university with a degree which doesn't really benefit anyone, and understandably they feel pretty hard done by."

Can you explain how this is relevant to any of my posts? The point I have made (repeatedly) is that it doesn't matter how clever people are or how well they select their courses: any firm or government authority is only ever going to need a very limited number of high earning employees and those jobs will only be feasible if a larger number of less paid workers can also be found.

If every school leaver in the country was suddenly able to get a First in medicine from Oxbridge or Edinburgh, this would not increase the number of doctors required or alter the fact that a hospital is always going to need more nurses and porters and cleaners than doctors. And as the salary gap widens, this will mean that there are fewer chances of having the kind of comfortable lifestyle the OP refers to.

This has nothing to do with fees or whining undergraduates.

The point I was making was that we're sending too many people to 'university'

There are plenty of people with good degrees in useful subjects who are working in jobs below their capacity, not because there is anything wrong with them, but simply because educating more people to a higher level will not necessarily affect the number of highly paid jobs that firms require

I'd argue that those with truly good degrees, in truly useful subjects, aren't typically underemployed.

Some 30 somethings have nice lives, some don't. Same as any age. From my peer group experience it's the decade where people start getting divorced, so not that much fun for a lot of people.

That depends on how you define underemployed, malice. Some of the people in admin definitely have good degrees in traditional subjects from well regarded universities. And I know people with very good degrees in science subjects who have struggled to find work that matches their capacity, not because science graduates are not required but because the market can be very unpredictable.

I think it is a comforting story we tell ourselves, that if only everybody worked as hard as we do, then everybody would be as comfortably off as we are. But supposing all those mickey mouse degrees were abolished tomorrow and get everybody to do degrees in useful subjects- where would all the well paid jobs come from? And who would do the less well paid jobs? How could we function if nobody did do the less well paid jobs? I am well aware that my own lovely and interesting job couldn't last for a week if there wasn't somebody less well paid who did the paperwork and cleaned the toilets and organised the catering. If everybody in the whole country had a good degree, we still couldn't get on without those jobs- so presumably they would have to be done by some of the people with good degrees.

I would add to Malice's list people who work in jobs typically not paid anything like what they're worth, e.g. some public sector jobs and anybody who is any kind of arts professional (writer, artist, actor, etc.) but not a "name". Plenty of not-well-off graduates in those.

But going back to the OP, I don’t think it’s possible to say what life is like for ‘most people’ based on what you see around you. Having done a brief scan of my FB friends list, which covers pretty much everyone I socialise with, a chunk of my workmates and all my schoolfriends and uni friends I’m still in touch with, from looking at my life you’d assume:

10% of the population is trans in some form.

0.5% of the population vote Tory and do so very quietly and insist they don’t like the welfare reforms either.

80% of the population vote Green or SNP.
50% of the population have some form of postgraduate qualification and at least 25% have phds.

100% of the population can name every single droid character in Star Wars.

The above is blatantly not true. We all live in our own little bubbles where people have different norms.

Mental illness here so nope. If it werent for that though it'd be ok.

DH and I are both 31. We own our house in greater London (with a mortgage), have 2 DC together and I have a DSS from his previous relationship. I drive a new car and am about to become a SAHM instead of returning to my (fairly well paid) job. Our friends are generally homeowners, married or in LT relationships, have degrees and jobs which pay significantly over the national average.

BUT. Our friends are people we've met through school, or university, or work. Which in themselves are small pools to draw from and provide filters to the people we're going to meet (and in the case of school and university, their likely 'prospects'). It would be naive to think that everyone lives like us, because not everyone has had the formative experiences we've had to get us to where we are. Or, the luck - good or otherwise, DM died unexpectedly 18 months ago which put us in a very different financial situation once probate is sorted.

I was talking to DP yesterday at how much like newspaper headlines MN AIBU topics sound like now. For some reason...

I don't think your deluded, I think it depends on the environment you live and work in.
All our friends fit into what you've described, most of us work in Finance and have good careers, a couple of other friends have their own businesses and have been successful.