To take exception to the term 'mumtitlement'?

[MerchantofVenice]

I'm sure many people have spotted this rather insidious word popping up on recent threads. Personally I find it unpleasant and misogynistic. Depresses me that a number of people immediately piped up about how much they 'loved' the term as soon as it was coined. Bleurrgh.

Why do we hate mums so much?? If someone's being unreasonably demanding, then that's one thing... But to try and link selfish behaviour to 'being a mum'... Wtf?

I get the idea that there is this general feeling that mums are marching around being all 'entitled' and, you know, trying to carry on their lives without apologising for being alive. This desperate need to belittle the whole of mumkind every time one mum gets something a bit wrong is so bloody annoying! Ok, if someone is a twat, call them out on it... But using a term like 'mumtitled' is confrontational to all mums - as if twatishness is peculiar to them...

A lot of the time, the issues seem to be about what women 'should' be doing - should they be going there, should they be breastfeeding there, should they just clear out of the way with their offensive offspring so that more important people can get on with their lives in peace? Pisses me right off.

Anyone else?

I could understand everyone falling over each other to slag off mums if this were, say, chauvinisttwats.com or similar....but it's, you know, mumsnet...

Let's just have a fair leave system which recognises that everyone takes turns and no one gets any special privileges. If you have children, you need to make your own arrangements for the day if you can't take leave. It's not the responsibility of your colleagues.

honkinghaddock
"Children do not take priority over equally vulnerable adults"

I think that their belief in santa etc, and the whole child-focus of St Nicholas, makes it a festival largely for kids.

'Equally vulnerable' is hard to define. Although some adults with learning disabilities might not have been told the truth about santa, I don't think xmas is as important to vulnerable adults as it is to children.
However I agree that an employer should equally consider an employees caring responsibilities towards equally dependent adults as they would to children - when accommodating their flexible working requirements.

OK Squirrel we get it. You should get priority for time off at Christmas because you happen to have children. My Christmas with my DH and our families is less important. Of course it is

Why is this "vulnerable adults" vs "children" in terms of women's right to request leave off? Is it because caring is predominantly carried out by women and devalued in capitalist societies where money and productivity determine work?

Shouldn't leave just be fairly allocated with clear boundaries and protocols around requesting flexibility for unsociable working, with work taking it's rightful place in society as highly important but not more important than providing care for human beings who can't provide it for themselves?

Most mothers of disabled children (into adulthood) and those with multiple caring responsibilities find they can't work at all. They are disproportionately likely to end up in poverty, also. Rather than suggesting that it is responsible of them to give up work because it would be "entitlement" to find a way to continue to work and provide care for others, perhaps we need to think about how all of us can co-operate and collaborate to provide the most compassionate society for all.

determine what work counts as valuable.

Venus
"Let's just have a fair leave system which recognises that everyone takes turns and no one gets any special privileges. If you have children, you need to make your own arrangements for the day if you can't take leave"
This system isn't fair on the employees who have flexible working requirements because they have dependents- or any other reason. For example I had a colleague who couldn't work nights because of her epilepsy. She was constrained. If she were forced to 'take her turn' at working nights in the name of being 'fair' she could have had seizures. The playing field is not level, different people have different needs and constraints. My colleague was not 'epileptitled' for not 'taking her turn' at nights.

For example I had a colleague who couldn't work nights because of her epilepsy. She was constrained Well she shouldn't be doing a job that has shifts if she can't work them.

angelos "You should get priority for time off at Christmas because you happen to have children. My Christmas with my DH and our families is less important. Of course it is"

I am not talking about me and my needs or my Christmas- I am a grown adult. However at xmas i believe the experience of anyone's kids takes priority over adults. I view it as essentially a kids festival day.

For example I had a colleague who couldn't work nights because of her epilepsy. She was constrained Well she shouldn't be doing a job that has shifts if she can't work them.

.

So she might be the most brilliant, wonderful caring nurse in the world or the most fabulously talented doctor, but because she has epilepsy which means there is ONE thing that she needs additional support with, she should be precluded from following that career irregardless of the quality of the contribution it means she can make to society.

Yeah. Right. Particularly if it means a single childless couple can't eat turkey together and watch shite TV.

We might as well say that anyone in a wheelchair shouldn't need a ramp to get to work because they can always get a job in a downstairs office with no steps.

Adults are on a par with one-another.

Squirrel, you say this and yet in every single post you write you are saying that the needs of some adults (ie those with children) trump the needs of other adults (ie those without children). Can you not see this makes sense?

FWIW I have encountered numerous examples of shitty, entitled behaviour in my lifetime - but half the time I couldn't tell you either the marital status or reproductive status of the person doing it. And that was because it didn't matter - shitty behaviour is shitty behaviour and we don't really need yet another label for it.

I've always found fucking wankers to be the best description of these people

However, I have also encountered behaviour by women with children that could be described as mumtitlement (I know I am contradicting myself here). For example, many years ago I was working in a GP surgery part-time as a practice manager whilst doing post-doctoral research the other half of the week. At the time I didn't have any children and was working on the assumption that I couldn't (long and dull story). Several times during that period I was asked to cover reception shifts during the time when I was working in my other job because the women supposedly covering it needed the day off for childcare or whatever. Firstly, I worked defined days and, as I had another JOB had no flexibility; secondly, it wasn't my job anyway (I was there for a specific reason that included management of the practice); thirdly, there were a lot of other people who could have and should have been asked before me - but weren't, because they had children regardless of whether they had more flexibility.

But because I was childless it was assumed that I could just fill in for them at the drop of a hat because my responsibilities were seen as less important (my other JOB). That attitude also extended into Christmas and other holidays - my DH was, at that point, an academic and so we were restricted about when we went to visit his family in Sweden - which included my step-children btw - and we needed to go in August and at Christmas.

So it's not always people with children who are less flexible.

Again that's a workflow management issue.
When you were asked to cover, you should have been allowed to say no with no pressure. The "ex

pectation" here is unreasonable from the employer, not the parent needing childcare cover.

fusion
"perhaps we need to think about how all of us can co-operate and collaborate to provide the most compassionate society for all."

Hear, hear

We might as well say that anyone in a wheelchair shouldn't need a ramp to get to work because they can always get a job in a downstairs office with no steps Not the same thing. If one person can't do the shifts that a role requires, it means other people have to do more unsociable hours.

I agree with fusionconfusion. I think people should take it up with their managers/employers if they feel pressured to cover for those needing a day off because, yes, I agree, people need time off for all sorts of reasons besides childcare issues.

HOWEVER, what I am noticing a little at the moment is parents trying to be apologist for the anti-parent attitude; i.e. I don't need special treatment because I have a baby etc so no one else should.

I do think that having a child is possibly one of the biggest changes you will ever go through (if you have one) and, yes, although it is usually rewarding and wanted, it can be very, very hard. Many parents who find themselves without an adequate level of support in their life can suffer from stress related illness, amongst other things, so, logically, I don't see why they shouldn't take anything or make any requests that could make their lives easier. So, yes, I am talking about employers being flexible, parents receiving certain benefits, parents being able to get priority seating or parking, having help in shops and having the public, in general, cutting them a bit of slack.

I am very, very glad mine are past the baby/toddler stage now and, mostly, it is easier now but I'll never forget those early years where I did feel a bit of a social pariah at times just for being a mum.

zeezeek
"in every single post you write you are saying that the needs of some adults (ie those with children) trump the needs of other adults (ie those without children)."

No I don't. I say that children's needs trump adult's. Parents facilitate children's needs, parents are constrained by children's needs, also that carers of other dependents are likewise constrained facilitators. Also differences/ constraints between adults include disability, etc. I am not talking about the "needs" of the parents, but their constraints and requirements.

"I am very, very glad mine are past the baby/toddler stage now and, mostly, it is easier now but I'll never forget those early years where I did feel a bit of a social pariah at times just for being a mum."

I just pray I don’t forget. I can remember some acts of kindness and patience of some people in their 50s or 60s would say "don't worry love, I remember what it was like" as they helped me or reassured me about my uncontrollably crying enfant.

I aspire to be one of those people. They are lovely.

"Not the same thing. If one person can't do the shifts that a role requires, it means other people have to do more unsociable hours."

Or...

it means that the employer needs to find good ways to make it reasonably fair for all in the interests of providing a fair and equitable working place that is not disablist.

Surely they just get people in who just want to do nights? That's what happens where I work. Some actually do where it fits in with their daytime commitments

gandalf
Surely they just get people in who just want to do nights? That's what happens where I work. Some actually do where it fits in with their daytime commitments

That is just one of many solutions if other employees take an issue with it, isn't it?

But hey ho, misogynist name-coining/calling feels so fucking good when haters feel the urge to purge. So I don't think they'll be interested.

Some people might feel Christmas is a "children's festival". Sorry, I don't, and whatever i do on it is no business of yours. I will continue to prioritise my own plans over those of other people, if I have something I would like to do and have been organised enough to book leave. Anyone challenging me on it would get very short shrift, I'm afraid.

Agree, OP. Hate it.

Christmas is a children's festival is just an opinion. Others might think it is a Christian festival so those who are regular churchgoers should have priority over those who think it is only about santa.