To hate modern school assembly songs?

[MintyChapstick]

Following on from a recent thread about those bloody awful modern class photos.

When I was growing up in the 90's we used to sing religious based songs like All Things Bright and Beautiful and Who Put the Colours in the Rainbow?Now they sing bloody weird shit about school rules, one about the lunchtime queaue. A few even have raps in them! They are hideous and to be quite frank, mostly drivel. For some reason I really pine for the songs I sang as a child.

It's nothing to do with school assemblies becoming more secular either, because they have to have collective worship as part of the curriculum and still say the Lords Prayer, hear Bible stories so I don't understand why they can't sing proper old songs?

My dh wants colours of day sung at his cremation service particularly because of the chorus!

DD1s (state) school have a school song which was written for them. The kids love it, sing it (and sign it) with passion. They are a very musical school and I do not feel that they are somehow on the wrong side of some social divide because they do not sing religious songs that a good chunk of the children do not believe in.

Toddler, it's one of my favourites too. I can never decide which tune I like best!

It's probably the third you don't know, it seems to be the most unusual (hence somebody's wedding video and a man singing hymns in his kitchen rather than an organ and congregation ) but that was the one in our school hymn book - I actually learned the 'modern' tune last.

I have 3 kids (oldest is a mid teen) and they don't know classics like Little Donkey, Rat-a-Tat-Tat, Lord of the Dance, Morning has broken, Hosannah, Channel of Your Peace, Who Built the Ark?, A Windmill in Old Amsterdam, The Ink is black, Battle of Jericho, If I had a hammer...

I'm an atheist but enjoy singing hymns.

I personally don't want any songs about gods or who made the world sung at school.

When a knight won his spurs is my favourite hymn. I'm going to be humming it all day now!

Souper I do understand that, but in terms of children singing, hymns some of the best short repetitive tunes to pick up and are how an awful lot of us learned to sing.

I'm not being snarky, but genuinely interested - what would you like children to sing instead? I'm struggling to think of many other songs that have a repetitive verse or verse/chorus pattern. Perhaps some new ones need to be written?

I remember using the Come and Praise books in middle school :)
We all moaned, but at least we were all singing.

My daughter is currently in primary. I think they have a 'singing assembly' once a week. The last thing she came home knowing some of the words to, was Wonderwall!

OK, I prefer religion to be kept out of school unless it's part of an RE lesson.
But they don't even do Away In A Manger or Oh Little Town at Christmas. Not even Little Donkey! I was suprised at how disappointed I was.

A Mouse lived in a Windmill in old Amstardam
A windmill with a mouse in and he wasn't grousing
He said to himself, how lucky I am
Living in a windmill in old Amsterdam

I saw a mouse! Where? Where on the stair? Right ther
A little mouse with clogs on, well I declare
Going clip clip pity clop on the stairs.

Ahhhhhh

I would like my children to sing anything but hymns at school. There are plenty of songs out there that aren't religious for them to sing.

If people are upset about their children missing out on hymns there's always church and Sunday school.

I went to an RC school and really liked the songs we sung - 'Shine Jesus Shine' and 'I the Lord of Sea and Sky' and such. I loved the music and the sentiments, and used to be very disappointed if the songs chosen for that week were watered-down ones that didn't make sense - there was one where we had to sing about doing various naughty things at school and then turning to God 'just for a change' which I thought was awful both because I was a generally good kid and because even at that age I could tell it was theologically nonsensical.

I was in the secondary school choir and remember singing Vivaldi's Gloria and other pieces in Latin. We were all very working-class and it was the only classical music I'd ever heard. I'm really pleased that I had that introduction to it.

I'm not religious now and I understand why secular songs in schools are a good thing! I just wish the songs themselves were better. Worst of all, though, as someone mentioned upthread, is when teachers just turn on YouTube and let the kids sing along to it, usually with American singers. The nursery I worked in did this with nursery rhymes and it made me feel sad - sure, not every adult has a great singing voice. I certainly don't! But if they won't even sing 'Humpty Dumpty' with a class of 3-year-olds, it's hardly surprising that kids aren't going to enjoy singing or realise that it's not important if their singing voices aren't perfect.

Oh, and we had 'The Wise Man Built His House Upon the Rock' instead of the sandy land version at primary school, and Chris de Burgh's 'A Spaceman Came Traveling' which I didn't realise wasn't a hymn until much later, because we replaced the 'Ahh..' bits with 'Alleluia'!

As a primary school teacher I used to loathe most of the hymns, particularly 'Kumbaya' and'If I was a wriggly, wriggly worm' with actions, but I am glad that schools are still singing. When our new Head came, despite his splendid performance in Assembly on interview day, he dropped all hymn singing, most religious content, and ducked out of Assemblies whenever he could. Unless, of course, it was Ofsted week.

Polk, tune 3 - really lovely.

I accept the point above that people are often atheist these days but I still don't see why learning hymns, words, tunes, harmonies and all the rest damages them. It gives them a cultural heritage which "wheels on a bus" doesn't give you. There is a reason the best of hymns have survived (and complex fairy tales and nursery rhymes) and we deprive children of that if we don't expose them to it. Anyway singing music it takes a while to learn at home or school is fun. They get a huge amount out of it. Some of course can join their local church or Cathedral choir of course.

I accept the point above that people are often atheist these days but I still don't see why learning hymns, words, tunes, harmonies and all the rest damages them

Because it's religious instruction in just one ideology. DD's school do a song about "who made" various things - the crocodile, the elephant, you and me - with "almighty God" as the answer to each question. It's not a faith school and at 3, 4 and 5 children believe what they sing. They put their hands together when they're told to.

I don't mind stuff being taught as "some people believe" but that should cover Kate than one faith. And that simply isn't what happens.

Kate?! More.

Autumn Days really bugged me as a kid. DO jet planes meet in the air to be refuelled? It always sounded really dangerous.

We seemed to sing that one about lighting a candle in the window all the time.

Oh and one about love being like a magic penny.

Article where the composer of Autumn Days defends the jet planes being refuelled bit.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/composer-who-drove-choir-to-rebel-defends-her-plane-song-1358136.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/composer-who-drove-choir-to-rebel-defends-her-plane-song-1358136.html

My children have been asking me why they have to go to church/ choir / sunday school and as I am rather a wishy washy Christian I have lots of different answers (I can't just say BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT, AND NOT GOING IS WRONG as my parents did)

Among the many and varied answers I give them are:

About choir - I tell them they get a great musical grounding which means when they are teenagers they will already have a professional attitude towards music and may even get paid.
(I also tell them that there is another reason which is selfish but true - I am in the choir and I like having them near me. They appreciate this as they are young enough to like being near me too :))

About church - I tell them that things that happen at church are different from things that happen anywhere else and people need the change of pace, style, and attitude; a different way of thinking and breathing and holding yourself. I am trying to tell them in dc-friendly language what spirituality is - not learning about ethics and customs, not taking part in community (though all this has value); but putting oneself in the presence of god and allowing oneself to be held.

I also tell them that they may not know why this is important, but they should practise it and get used to it so it is there when they need it.

I am having a tough time at the moment and there are times when I don't know where to go and what to do. Churches are traditional places of sanctuary and my church is to me, on Sundays. Even physically. Having a neutral place to go where I belong and can be among people but not analysed; where I know I am needed, but very capable of carrying out my responsibilities.

• but I would not know about that sanctuary if I had not been told as a child and habituated to it. I would not know how to access it.

I do not talk to them about sanctuary because I don't want to be talking to children about bad times and feeling desperate. I hope they don't know anything like that feeling, and won't for years, in fact never.

This is a long answer to why I think religion is acceptable in schools. Not all adults need or want religion. But if you do, you don't know what it is unless you have been introduced to it. I don't mind if people are religious or not and if they have reasons to move away from religion and can be happy doing so, then that's ok. But helping children to access spirituality is as important - as a regular habit - as accessing physical exercise.

but I would not know about that sanctuary if I had not been told as a child and habituated to it. I would not know how to access it.

DH and I are atheists. In her short life DD (5) has attended churches - many kinds of churches - for weddings, funerals and christenings. She understands why people might go there and what they do. She visited a mosque as a baby and we talk to her about how things happen there. She'll no doubt attend a synagogue at some point when Jewish relatives hold events. We talk to her about what all of those belief systems are about. She's is absolutely free to believe one or more of them herself if she chooses to. If she ever needs faith, she'll know just where to access it, whether she's sung All Things Bright and Beautiful at school or not.

Utterly not true.

We also sang cauliflowers fluffy and cabbages green and puff the magic dragon and the teach the whole world to sing song oh and when I'm 64 by the Beatles!

Oh god, enough already. Hymns are religious indoctrination and school be banned from school. Why don't they spend the time doing something important like ummm Maths or ummmmm English!!!

Would parents be happy for their children to have to chant muslim songs every morning?

Minty my primary school used the wake-up song, I loved it! We also had the traditional songs too. I think we only sang the songs at the Friday's assembly!

They cut out one of the verses in 'All things bright and beautiful' a while back. The one that goes...
'The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.'

I like hymns and singing, in the late 60s we sang a lot of hippy peace songs in school as well. I'd rather children were taught to sing well and for fun, I'm less bothered about a lot of the content.

'Would parents be happy for their children to have to chant muslim songs every morning?'

You might be surprised to discover how many songs are acceptable to Muslims who don't ban singing altogether.
All things, Cauliflowers fluffy, When a knight...all OK.