Attempted abductions uotside schools - risk?

[Kenduskeag]

Another day, another attempted abduction outside a local school. This time, a man in a white van pulled up beside a 10 year old boy and tried to physically manhandle him into the vehicle. As the child kicked and shouted, a nearby gardener was alerted and the man was chased off. Police are, as ever, investigating.

But it seems there's one or two of these every week! Just scouring the local papers - Sep '15, a boy grabbed by the driver of a red Nissan, escaped. Dec '15, a boy grabbed by a man in a balaclava. A woman claiming to be a friend of a young boy's mother tried to coax him into a car: police are investigating. In Stockport in January, police had 6 reports in 10 days of men, and in one case a couple, trying to coax children into a car. 1st April, an attempt in Heywood, 12 year old girl. The Bolton schools shared a social media warning two or three weeks ago and a primary not far from here had a warning out also - two incidents, drivers with similar descriptions. That's just local. How many nationwide?

So what's going on? We very rarely (if ever, in the last few years?) see any news stories claiming a successful outside-school abduction. Does that mean they all (due to children fighting them off) fail? We don't see media reports of these drivers being caught, charged and trialled. There doesn't seem to be much media interest, beyond the usual warnings - no 'who are these people?' or 'Are these drivers all linked?' Could some be fraudulent - children late for school or home, quickly coming up with the old man-in-the-car chestnut, which explains the lack of media follow-up?

AIBU to think this needs some closer investigation? Is it on the increase or occurring at the same rate? I'm just not sure what to think. On the one hand I like to think of myself as sensible and able to sift through clickbait headlines and fearmongering in order to ascertain real risk, and the ol' 'man in the car who says he's a friend of your mum' routine seems like something long-forgotten from the 1980s. On the other, there does still seem to be a risk of people who don't seem to give a stuff how many people see them grabbing shouting children and who the papers would have us believe are rarely or never caught.

Really? Do you think that's the sort of advice you should be giving a 13 year old at 3.00 in the afternoon? Is that the sort of advice you give your 13 year old?

are you seriously saying that 13 year olds should live under "come straight home, let us know exactly where you are, don't take detours, stay with your friends" rules all the time?

Er, no. I was referring to the period immediately after a specific abduction attempt (Rachel Cowles) in the local area and how people might have reacted if these sort of Facebook warnings had been given at the time.

Clearly the Dowlers and Milly were behaving totally normally for normal circumstances. Spending your bus money on chips, taking a different route home, traveling alone and a parent being to busy too offer a lift and telling a teenager to make her own way home are all perfectly and absolutely normal.

BUT that doesn't change the fact there had been an attempted abduction in the area, just nobody knew about it in those days. And we now know that the person who tried to do it is a serial killer.

And it doesn't change the fact that if people had known that at the time then they may have had reason to be cautious and that might possibly have saved Milly's life.

It wasn't a possibility then, as there was no Facebook, but I find it really hard to understand why anybody could argue that wasn't a possibility.

The Spectator article - surprise surprise - is just an elongated pop at council social services in general and Brent Council in particular.

Amazing, isn't it that Councils are "interfering busybodies" when they intervene and are "completely negligent" when they don't.

It was a long time ago, there was a request for evidence of news articles, that was all I could find.

A very interesting thread, and good to know that others are concerned about over-anxiety about child safety.
Just to add, about my childhood friend who I said was "abducted" - I honestly don't know what happened to her. We were about 8 or 9 , during the 1940s, we were playing in the fields, and a man was standing at a field gate and grabbed my friend as we went through. He tried to grab me as well and I dodged away and ran to give the alarm. We were still allowed to play in the fields etc afterwards. Young parents would be horrified at the lack of supervision we had, in wartime and postwar, when fathers were away.
We have 4 children, and as far as I know none of them had a threat of abduction etc.

Bertrand perhaps I should have qualified that with in my opinion. In my opinion you ridicule and nit pick at other posters and that is your general posting style all over the boards. In my opinion. It wasn't just addressed at you either.

I notice too that you don't particularly address any evidence that is presented either despite requesting it. Lots of first person experiences on her that you don't respond to.

I don't agree that this thread is raising anxieties at all and who elected you to police that anyway? People should be allowed to discuss their concerns without being made to feel silly and paranoid.

In my opinion.

Apparently this happened to my DNephew........Bare with me

My DSis got a hysterical text (from another school Mum) that he'd been bundled into a car by a foreigner.

DSis called him immediately: 'Where are you?'
'In the car with Uncle Buuny, why?'
'We're not late you know we're on our way to collect you now!' said in that offended tone that only teenagers can do.

DSis can hear Uncle Buuny in the background and then they pull up to pick her up on the way to meet the rest of us for dinner.

So she calls the woman back to say actually he's fine; and to find out what police officer she spoke to to tell them if something has happened it wasn't DN.

Other Woman answers the call immediately is wailing 'Oh my God Oh My God this is so awful I can't believe this would happen here' Sis couldn't get a word in; finally gets her to shut up, tells her DN is fine; asks who at the station did she talk to you......

She hadn't called the police; just Sis and a pile of other school Mums & Dads. Sis tries to confirm what 'happened' OSM (Other School Mum) claims that it was definitely DN;
DN confirms he saw and even waved goodbye to her.
It was definitely a van (so it's changed already) actually it was an estate car.
And it was definitely a foreigner well Uncle Buuny is brown but he's a British in fact more so that DSis or I.

Sis goes 'well you need to call all of them back and tell them you were wrong and he's fine.'

This is the best bit' OSM states 'Well I KNOW what I saw'

DSis & BIL spent the rest of the night getting increasingly hysterical phone calls from people in the village with increasing changed 'details'

So by the end of the night DN had had a bag thrown over his head; and been dragged kicking and screaming into a van (of various colours) by no less than 3 swarthy looking men. . . .

The village facebook page was full of people claiming to have seen said van & men driving around the school.

This happened about 3 years ago; the 'fact' that there was an attempted abduction from XXX school is still been told to new starter parents. The story has now mutated to OSM bravely screaming and running them off and OH MY GOD what would have happened if she hadn't been there. . . ('cause DN being fine/well and clearly not abducted kind of ruins it all)

We know it's still doing the rounds as younger DN started at the school last year and Sis was told the story in the playground they even used DN unusual first name.

Shes tried to point out it's crap, but get told she's wrong. . . and that it's better to be safe.

"Bertrand perhaps I should have qualified that with in my opinion. In my opinion you ridicule and nit pick at other posters "

Great. Then please could you show me where in your opinion I have ridiculed another poster? Thank you.

"notice too that you don't particularly address any evidence that is presented either despite requesting it. Lots of first person experiences on her that you don't respond to."

Are there any first person experiences of children being abducted by men in white vans outside schools? If there are, I have genuinely missed them and apologise. I am not denying that children are abducted- of course they are. What I am challenging is the belief that children are at risk in this particular way. And I feel very strongly that telling children that they are at risk in this way is dangerous. It takes our eyes off the real risk. People think their children are safer at home on the internet than in the park.

Why are you obsessed with white vans?

And I feel very strongly that telling children that they are at risk in this way is dangerous. It takes our eyes off the real risk. People think their children are safer at home on the internet than in the park.

Sorry, but what a pile of shite. You don't not tell children not to drink the weed killer in the shed because it's more likely they'll stick their hands in the grill and burn themselves.

You teach children sensible safety precautions where ever they go. You make sure they are safe online, at home and outside the home.

Suggesting that we shouldn't warn children that this is a potential danger and how to deal with it if they face it is as ridiculous as suggesting that we only teach them to use umbrellas and not suncream because it's more likely to be rainy.

Bunny that is hilarious! And also it hilarious but just shows how quickly bullshit spreads

You teach children sensible safety precautions where ever they go.

I doubt many people teaches children the correct protocol when caught out in a thunderstorm, and being struck by lightning is significantly more likely than abduction. That's because children, and adults, have a limited number of things they can remember, and trying to teach them in the abstract to deal with very unlikely scenarios is a waste of time.

And, of course, the situations in which talking to a stranger would make you safer are at least as common as the situations in which it wouldn't.

Where don't you do it would be a better question Bertrand?

Agree Bill. I made a similar point earlier on regarding garden ponds etc. But that was ignored. Like pretty much everything else that doesn't toe the party line.

Thankfully the anxiety and hysteria that certain posters are so worried about doesn't seem to have taken off as this thread is moving pretty slowly. Perhaps most people can be trusted to assess risks sensibly without strenuous guidance?

And I think the near constant insistence of proving that a White Van has been involved in an incident of some kind has pretty much prevented the discussion from evolving into a more general one that could have been really useful.

"Why are you obsessed with white vans?"

Because in this country it always is a white van.Usually driven by a "foreign looking" man- often wearing a hat. Apparently in Australia it's a panel van.

"Where don't you do it would be a better question Bertrand? grin"

Ah. You're just being gratuitously offensive. Making accusations without being able/prepared to back them up is pretty shabby behaviour.

Anyway. I feel very strongly that if you warn children too much the warnings become background noise. And if these specific warnings about something that doesn't actually happen keep coming out and being spread by social media children will either become blasé about other risks or become unnecessarily fearful.

Plus - they will miss out on other vital areas of development because they're too scared to go out there and try them.
Or their parents are too scared to let them.
BTW - I drive an old white van

It's all here on the thread Bertrand. People can make up their own mind. Please do report any "gratuitously offensive" posts of mine though.

I don't report things. I just rather despise people not prepared to stand by their accusations. But hey ho.

Stop making things up Bertrand I have responded to everyone one of your posts. I just don't intend to respond to your instructions. It's all here on the thread.

You accused me of ridiculing people. I asked for examples. You refused to give them. Shabby behaviour.

No Bertrand in MY opinion you've done it throughout the thread. Your overall posting style is dismissive, piss taking and snide and that is my opinion on not just this thread but many. I simply don't need/can't be arsed to offer you specific examples for you to nit pick over and attempt to prove me wrong because it is ALL OVER THE THREAD! In my opinion. Now I won't respond to any more requests for specific examples again because it's just a case of repeating myself over and over and you can label that however you wish. The posts stand and posters can make their own mind up.

"You ridicule people on this thread for being cautious, forcing them to justify it by your dismissive and nit picking tone,"

You only changed it to "in your opinion" when challenged to put your money where your mouth is. As I said, not being prepared to back up accusations is rather shabby. And cowardly.

In your opinion obviously.

I changed it because it was the right thing to do and I should have said that first off. Sorry to disappoint you.

You have an unpleasant posting style and I know it's been said before. Either change it or stop whinging when challenged.

And I have backed my assertions up over and over again. Just not in a way that allows you to launch into full nit picking mode and you can keep insisting otherwise but it won't make it true.