Attempted abductions uotside schools - risk?

[Kenduskeag]

Another day, another attempted abduction outside a local school. This time, a man in a white van pulled up beside a 10 year old boy and tried to physically manhandle him into the vehicle. As the child kicked and shouted, a nearby gardener was alerted and the man was chased off. Police are, as ever, investigating.

But it seems there's one or two of these every week! Just scouring the local papers - Sep '15, a boy grabbed by the driver of a red Nissan, escaped. Dec '15, a boy grabbed by a man in a balaclava. A woman claiming to be a friend of a young boy's mother tried to coax him into a car: police are investigating. In Stockport in January, police had 6 reports in 10 days of men, and in one case a couple, trying to coax children into a car. 1st April, an attempt in Heywood, 12 year old girl. The Bolton schools shared a social media warning two or three weeks ago and a primary not far from here had a warning out also - two incidents, drivers with similar descriptions. That's just local. How many nationwide?

So what's going on? We very rarely (if ever, in the last few years?) see any news stories claiming a successful outside-school abduction. Does that mean they all (due to children fighting them off) fail? We don't see media reports of these drivers being caught, charged and trialled. There doesn't seem to be much media interest, beyond the usual warnings - no 'who are these people?' or 'Are these drivers all linked?' Could some be fraudulent - children late for school or home, quickly coming up with the old man-in-the-car chestnut, which explains the lack of media follow-up?

AIBU to think this needs some closer investigation? Is it on the increase or occurring at the same rate? I'm just not sure what to think. On the one hand I like to think of myself as sensible and able to sift through clickbait headlines and fearmongering in order to ascertain real risk, and the ol' 'man in the car who says he's a friend of your mum' routine seems like something long-forgotten from the 1980s. On the other, there does still seem to be a risk of people who don't seem to give a stuff how many people see them grabbing shouting children and who the papers would have us believe are rarely or never caught.

Me too, some people seem to think adults who want to harm children simply do not exist

Or they unfortunately work in a field where they are well aware of the risks to children, and know that this is a relatively low risk given excessively high levels of media panic.
There are many, many people who want to harm kids. Very few of them try to grab the kids in broad daylight, because them being evil doesn't make them thick or irrational. They don't want to get caught. They most usually find their victims through people they know and/or using the internet.

The 'ooh people are naive when they think abductions are rare' rhetoric is in fact itself naive, assuming we can (a) identify risky adults easily (b) that such adults are rash and easy to spot/stop. If only it were that simple.

Abduction is one of the rarest ways abusers get to children in the UK. Speaking as someone with professional expertise in safeguarding spanning 15 years.
Many of the CP issues I have dealt with in recent years, however, are kids groomed on the web at home while their innocent parents had them indoors all the time because of the imaginary swarms of easily identifiable dirty old men in parks.

maz

"The girl told police she was approached by a man and a woman in Station Road but escaped unharmed."

Well, I'm convinced. 8.57am, though, so a handy excuse for being late for school.

They seem a bit shit these abductors, though: given they always fail (a) why do they keep trying and (b) why are we worried about them, if they always fail?

I'm always puzzled about the amount of anxiety around bringing up children these days

It was ever thus. In the late 70s and 80s you had the cases of Susan Maxwell, Caroline Hogg etc (and Genette Tate) and obviously there had been the Moors Murders in the 60s as well. My mother was nervous about me going out on my own (although I did used to walk down a country lane with no pavement to the letterbox when I was about 8).

There was an incident near a school by me a year or so ago but when the police investigated the person involved had a credible explanation (asking for directions) and the police took no further action. I suggest however, that adults don't ask children near schools (or at all) for directions!

Me too, some people seem to think adults who want to harm children simply do not exist

No-one has said that, so a bit of a non argument really. Of course adults exist that want to harm children, I work in psychotherapy with adults who were sexually, emotionally and physically abused as children so I'm sadly more than well aware of this. But this doesn't change the fact that stranger abductions are rare, never mind stranger abductions by men in vans outside schools.

Laguna but high-horsers always, always know better they've seen it on FB conspiricy pages and the daily mail than people who actually work keeping young people safe or dealing with the consequences of abuse.

I think there's a lot of magical thinking going on. I think we would all rather that the threat to our children came from anonymous outsiders- that's why the over emphasis on stranger danger and people acting suspiciously in playgrounds and so on. That way we wouldn't have to think about the real much more difficult dangers they face.

I think there's a lot of magical thinking going on. I think we would all rather that the threat to our children came from anonymous outsiders- that's why the over emphasis on stranger danger and people acting suspiciously in playgrounds and so on. That way we wouldn't have to think about the real much more difficult dangers they face.

Yes. Also this approach helps people feel they are better mums vigilent and that those who aren't panicky are fools neglecting their children simply by reacting to FB panics with more panic.
Magical thinking + mob rule + slacktivism.

I started a thread on this a while ago and was mostly accused of victim blaming and not believing children

They are ten a penny around our way. Always white vans, lone child, child approached or followed.

Nothing ever comes of it. Next week same story. I honestly think it is mass hysteria, kids are wary of any van that happens to pull up near them or looks 'dodgy'.

The comments under the articles do my head in 'omg so scary' mass tagging of mates. Lots of 'well I don't even let my 13 year old walk to school on their own you can never be too safe'

Utterly ridiculous.

When was the last genuine stranger abduction? Even Holly and Jessica 'knew' their murdered. Milly Dowler maybe?

*murderer

There was supposedly one locally and the school sent out a written warning. I checked with the police... and it turned out to be one hysterical teacher who made it up.
I was furious. All the kids were terrified of white vans.

When this didn't happen to me (I was a young teen and on my bike, so I fled) it was a work vehicle, pick up vehicle (no pun intended, it was terrifying).
The "don't believe you"/ victim blaming people at the time were an eye opener for me. I hope nothing ever happens to me or anyone I know as I think only a small % of humans are prepared to believe in the shit that goes on.

Milly Dowler actually knew Bellfield. She went to school with one of his daughters and they were friends. IIRC they don't think it was a vehicle abdication either, his property was on her route home and they believe that he tricked her into the property, possibly by asking for help with some heavy furniture that he was moving. And obviously as she knew him...

The last successful stranger abduction I can think of is Sarah Payne.

But I don't think that necessarily means that the danger isn't real. I think that it could possibly mean simply that the message is getting through and children are well educated about the danger which keeps them safe, and possibly even that new communication channels like Facebook are improving warning systems and that's actually making things safer.

Bear in mind, a few weeks before Milly went missing a man believed to be Bellfield tried abduct a girl called Rachel Cowles 3 miles away. If Facebook had been around then and warnings had been put out, who knows if Milly wouldn't have been taking extra care and wouldn't have been walking home alone the long way round in the first place?

who knows if Milly wouldn't have been taking extra care

If the message was "beware of being abducted in the street by strangers" this would have protected her from the father of someone she knew because...?

If the message was "beware of being abducted in the street by strangers" this would have protected her from the father of someone she knew because...?

Potentially quite a few ways. They don't know exactly what happened, there's a question mark over how well she knew him or even if she would have thought him 'safe' if she did because of his history of violence towards his family and his on off presence in the family home. So a warning about strangers may well have resonated into 'somebody you barely know' too.

Also there were a few other factors involved. She got off her train at a different stop from normal, further from home and spent her bus money on chips. IIRC she'd asked her mother for a lift but she was too busy so she'd had to set off home alone. '. Lots of variables in there that might have been affected by a warning. For example 'come straight home, let us know exactly where you are, don't take detours, stay with your friends' type instructions. And her family might have had their concerns raised enough to think a lift or taxi was necessary.

Plus the two abductions weren't even linked until 2005, and a general awareness of a similar event might have led to police joining the dots a bit quicker and catching Bellfield before he murdered 3 other women rather than him going on to kill and seriously injure other women. Not that that would have saved Millie though in all likelihood.

Incidents like this do occasionally occur and there's obviously no room for complacency, but I've seen this (serious) issue misused time and again for people with either a political agenda, or the press looking to scare us half to death (which sadly, sells newspapers and draws visits to websites).

Innocent people have been accused of all sorts of things as a consequence of this atmosphere - the aforementioned photography student, but more recently, in my area, someone who was trying to stop kids throwing rubbish in his front garden and was photographing parents and kids doing this; parents have also used it as an excuse to drive their kids 200 yards to school and park illegally outside (I swear some mums would walk their kids to their desks if they could).

It does occur, we should always be on our guard, but, realistically, I don't think it occurs proportionately more since we were kids. We are, thanks to social media (and Mumsnet) more aware of what does happen.

"Also there were a few other factors involved. She got off her train at a different stop from normal, further from home and spent her bus money on chips. IIRC she'd asked her mother for a lift but she was too busy so she'd had to set off home alone. '. Lots of variables in there that might have been affected by a warning. For example 'come straight home, let us know exactly where you are, don't take detours, stay with your friends' type instructions. And her family might have had their concerns raised enough to think a lift or taxi was necessary."

Really? Do you think that's the sort of advice you should be giving a 13 year old at 3.00 in the afternoon? Is that the sort of advice you give your 13 year old?

For example 'come straight home, let us know exactly where you are, don't take detours, stay with your friends' type instructions.

Since it's asserted that these abductions are happening everywhere all the time, are you seriously saying that 13 year olds should live under "come straight home, let us know exactly where you are, don't take detours, stay with your friends" rules all the time? Because I sincerely hope you live in a bungalow, never have not drinks and don't travel by car, all of which mitigate risks orders of magniude more serious.

This wasn't outside of a school.

The 'affair' was a train driver and she was 14/15 at the time.

Clearly she was secretative as I had no idea she was in care or had been in trouble with police. As a school peer she was insecure and not popular, a harmless kid into Elvis rather than the modern day music.

She visited me unannounced at home and ran from her family if she saw them in the street. I gathered her Dad hit her after the 'affair'. I was never at her home and didn't know her address.

Anyway my point is children do get abused by strangers and murdered by strangers.

My thoughts are she was a nieve girl that got taken advantage of on a train which later caused family friction, everyone except other kids blamed her. Then the spiral into hell for her. I live with guilt I wasn't a good friend to her, we weren't close, though I was apparently someone she wrote of in her diary. I was contacted after her death.

archive.spectator.co.uk/article/31st-august-1991/14/so-who-cares

Yes actually that is the sort of advice I give my 13 year old - stick with your mates, call me when you leave locations etc. We need to where I live because believe it or not some places are less safe then where YOU live and and some children are more vulnerable than yours:

You ridicule people on this thread for being cautious, forcing them to justify it by your dismissive and nit picking tone, yet no one says you should be doing more or you're neglectful for not doing so, so you're on the right side of the fence. Personally I just think your attitude and posting style shows rather limited awareness that other people's circumstances and experiences may not be exactly the same as yours.

So sure you're on the right side of the fence.

It's better to be alerted by reports than not at all even if a majority come to nothing.

When I was about 8/9 I was successfully led to a mans house via poor lost dog that he foundstole story.
Luckily nothing bad happened but I didn't half shit myself when I realised I wasn't safe and talked myself out and left.
He was 18 at the time so he must have bottled it and I was probably the 1st and last hopefully!
I didn't tell anyone.

When I was freshly 16 and working outdoors in a busy mall a random man aproached me and kept asking/insisting for me to go with him to his house.

These probably dont count but Been aproached by strangers 2 times after that, they pretended to know me only one set where in a red transit van. I walked off.

Ithink most potential abductors or potential abductions or uportunistic.

Are opportunistic*

Think I had gullible and nieve stamp on my head and also didn't help I looked young for my age.

Why are these attempts never successful?

Can I just quote you there Bertrand, just in case anyone missed it.

"You ridicule people on this thread for being cautious"

No haven't. I have not ridiculed anyone. £10 to a charity of your choice if you show me ridicule.

All I have said is that the risk to children does not come from men in white vans outside schools. And I will go further. Focussing on this means that children are in more danger from the real risks.

And if by "nit picking" you mean "asking for evidence" then hands up, yes, I am nit picking. Because this thread in itself is likely to increase people's anxiety.
This is important. We need to think about how we deal with threats to our children. Focussing on men in white vans is taking our eyes off the ball.