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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think hording something essential for life is despicable

375 replies

sandrabedminster · 19/05/2016 08:33

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/special-reports/i-have-three-properties-at-age-33-and-3000-a-month-to-save-do-i/

Its not jealousy before someone says it, I own my own home but I doubt my children will ever be able to. But shelter is something essential and all this speculation is causing lots of damage as prices are pushed ever higher. I know a friend that spends 70% of net income just on renting something that is too small for her.

OP posts:
andintothefire · 19/05/2016 15:27

I don't have a second home but I do feel a bit uncomfortable criticising second home owners when the situation with property prices is such that they are probably living in very small houses or flats in the week.

Ultimately I don't blame them wanting somewhere with some outside space for weekends and holidays! I can't necessarily argue that they don't have a "need" for that property (yes, other people have more need but if we start getting into arguments about relative need then you just start wanting people to downsize on retirement etc which gets a bit silly).

BTL is different though, because it is normally purely for financial gain (though I accept there are also other reasons for renting out properties, eg if you move abroad temporarily). That is the aspect that makes people uncomfortable, because BTL landlords are in a much better position than ordinary homeowners to obtain mortgages - and until recently even in paying those mortgages off.

Andrewofgg · 19/05/2016 17:42

Now I come to think of it, are Tesco "hoarding" bread when they have huge amounts of it which they will only part with at a price they set?

seasidesally · 19/05/2016 18:21

agree with you op

no wonder prices have risen with so many people jumping on the BTL

also many on MN have had a helping hand from parents for deposit etc so they have not been in the position of not being able to afford a home,they have no idea whats it's like to not even stand a chance of owning their own home

some people have no idea how hard it is for people to buy as they have the bank of mum and dad

seasidesally · 19/05/2016 18:25

oh and i would nationalise gas/electric/water if i could

Andrewofgg · 19/05/2016 19:17

Is there any homeowner here who would not sell, when the time to sell came, to a BTLer who offered more in favour of an intending owner-occupier who offered less?

No, I thought not!

specialsubject · 19/05/2016 19:28

Funny, that....

mirime · 19/05/2016 20:06

Andrewofgg - actually if I had a say in the matter I would. As it is I don't really as we have negative equity and the bank will need to approve any sale, bit seriously, if we had equity, had two offers like that, and DH agreed, I'd sell to the person who wanted a home.

Andrewofgg · 19/05/2016 20:20

Very touching mirime but you will appreciate that people with equity who want to buy another home in the open market cannot afford to take that view. And executors and trustees-in-bankruptcy have to sell for the best price they can get.

As for the utilities: Bank in the sixties the Evening Standard in London had a consumer helpdesk - which got more complaints about the North Thames Gas Board than about all other bodies, public and private, put together. Nationalisation was fine in the socialist theories of the post-war years but it never worked well.

Gide · 19/05/2016 21:04

are Tesco "hoarding" bread when they have huge amounts of it which they will only part with at a price they set?

The wankers!

He's not hoarding something essential to life, how totally dramatic and ridiculous. Thought you were going to mention he was refusing his brother a kidney or something! He's creating himself a pension fund. I've done the same, the property was viewed by multiple couples the day it went on the market.

Rentals are popular. I'm buying another next year, which I will not be 'hoarding'. Jesus, where's the roll eyes smiley?

WriteforFun1 · 19/05/2016 21:22

Andrew, I'd be interested to know how those complaint figures stack up against complaints about privatised services. I bet they're very similar.

mirime · 19/05/2016 21:44

Andrewofgg of course it depends on circumstances, as I made clear in my post.

I'd prefer not to sell to a BTler partly because there are so many property's to rent in the area and a lot of them spend a fair amount of time empty/get wrecked very quickly/get used for cannabis factories (getting wrecked in the process) and my neighbours and most of the people I met on the street were decent people. It also may explain why I don't want to be a landlord myself!

I don't have a problem with BTL as long as it's not to the extent that it's damaging to an area, the landlords stick to their responsibilities and keep the houses in good condition - and don't gleefully talk about how well they're going to do out of picking up repossessed properties cheap at auction.

Oh and, no need for the "very touching".

TattyCat · 19/05/2016 22:17

The house next door to me is empty, but in good condition. It's been empty for c.10 years. Someone turns up every month to, I assume, pick up post but otherwise it's a well functioning, perfectly acceptable property. The person who owns it is apparently an Accountant who works for the local council.

Why? Just, why? When I see someone on the streets, or hear of someone in need of a roof over their head, I really want to direct them to the house next door. It's warm, it's acceptable and it's UNUSED. I accept that it's maybe his 'pension', but really ? I want to move into it myself, if only to save on my mortgage! What's the point?

TattyCat · 19/05/2016 22:29

All very quiet. WHY shouldn't someone live in this house until 'they need it'? It's empty! I'm short of advertising it on a 'homeless' basis but that would be illegal. Sick!

SaucyJack · 19/05/2016 22:42

What's your problem OP?

I'm sure his tenants are very grateful to him to be able to pay for his properties two or three times over the course of their lifetime- only to have nothing to show for it themselves. He's practically doing them the favour.

It's their choice to rent at the end of the day. Tesco throw out some very nice cardboard boxes, and it's only so cold you'll die of hypothermia overnight for four months of the year.

Hurrah for landlords! The saviour of humanity.

ArundelTomb · 19/05/2016 22:55

If he was hoarding housing wealth, he'd have his entire portfolio invested in one single, far too large for him, principal residence, so he can benefit from Principal Residence Relief from CGT when it comes time to sell. As it is, he's a landlord, providing much needed housing in the rental sector.

PS Housing wealth is not essential to life. You can live perfectly well without it.

ginorwine · 20/05/2016 07:27

Op just as an aside
If you are concerned that your children will never own you could consider
Downsizing to release equity if you have it - give them a deposit
Or
Sign the house over to them
We are thinking of this ..

Original poster
sandrabedminster · 20/05/2016 07:45

*What's your problem OP?

I'm sure his tenants are very grateful to him to be able to pay for his properties two or three times over the course of their lifetime- only to have nothing to show for it themselves. He's practically doing them the favour.

It's their choice to rent at the end of the day. Tesco throw out some very nice cardboard boxes, and it's only so cold you'll die of hypothermia overnight for four months of the year.

Hurrah for landlords! The saviour of humanity.*

Haha exactly. The tenant should be happy that the landlord is even letting them live there. After all if the landlords hadn't speculated and pushed up the prices all of these homes would cease to exist.

Hooray for the return of the many forced to rent from the few.

OP posts:
londonrach · 20/05/2016 08:28

Agree with you op. Thankfully we left the rental market now but its been hell with all the buy to letters snapping up the first entry properties. I think those that say op is being unreasonable dont understand how awful this situation is at the present time. Sadly i can only see it getting worse! For those saying work harder etc its the fact there is limited properties on the market and if they come on sadly ive seen the estate agents offer to buy to letters as they bought before and the prices are raising quicker than you can save. You do only need one house to live in!

BungoWomble · 20/05/2016 09:29

Saucy and Sandra, love it!

It is remarkable how every single person who has ever told me that renting forever is fine, after all they do it on the continent (actually that's out of date, owner occupation in most countries is ahead of our own and many still have social housing to boot), is themselves a homeowner. Or, in some cases, a landlord themselves. Funny how it isn't fine for them isn't it.

BungoWomble · 20/05/2016 09:33

There is plenty of evidence to show that privatisation hasn't worked well. Look at how the national debt has grown since we've privatised profits but - conveniently for shareholders - kept the public debt. Start another thread if you like, Andrewofgg.

Andrewofgg · 20/05/2016 09:38

TattyCat renting out a "portfolio" of one is risky. One destructive or late-paying tenant and you face disaster. It would help if HB could be paid direct to the LL before arrears build up.

If your neighbour only drove his car once a month would you expect him to lend or rent it out to someone who really, really needed transport but could not afford to buy and run a car?

LostMySanityCanIBorrowYours · 20/05/2016 09:45

Who are all these people happy to rent forever?

I don't know anyone who wants to rent for the rest of their lives.

BadLad · 20/05/2016 09:49

Nobody answered what they expect students to do if there are no properties for rent.

londonrach · 20/05/2016 09:52

Badlad...... My university was building huge halls when i left. In fact every town ive been to recently it seems thats what the universities are doing!

specialsubject · 20/05/2016 09:55

I agree that keeping properties empty is generally nuts- logically and financially. It happens in London where the expensive flats are sold to wealthy oligarchs who use them as money parks, but a flat in warm London isn't going to decay. Empty properties attract full council tax but these people won't care. It would be easy to legislate this out but no government cares.

I await, as always, an explanation of why it is unacceptable for landlords to make money, but OK for banks, food sellers , teachers, medical workers etc etc.