Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.




Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.




There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

[GreatFuckability]

Kate when I considered termination of my third pregnancy due to severe HG that left me utterly incapable of caring for my two existing children, I was told the waiting list was 6 weeks for a consultatiob. I was already 5 weeks pregnant at that point. 6 weeks is not fast or easy access.

[GreatFuckability]

Oh and I also support the decriminalisation of abortion.

[kipperydippery]

I live in the Isle of Man. Our abortion laws are more restrictive than N.I.

I am not going to comment on how late is too late for an abortion - I would simply like to have the choice open to me.

I was sterilised a few years ago, one of the main factors in my decision was the abortion laws here.

I don't have the funds to "have a days shopping trip to liverpool" , pay for all ferry tickets etc, the procedure itself, plus deal with the emotional fall out, because there is no support here. Plus how to explain the time off work.

It is a very difficult decision for any woman to make. Those of you in the UK debating this, be very grateful you can choose

[georgetteheyersbonnet]

I support the RCM. Late term abortions are few in number and overwhelmingly for serious and often traumatic reasons, which many people in the wider public have little knowledge of unless they have specialist medical or personal experience. (I know of one friend who had to have a termination to save her own life, because she needed a type of acute medical treatment which was not compatible with the life of the foetus. This was appallingly traumatic for all involved.) That kind of horrendous situation is not dealt with lightly and needs sensitive and informed treatment, not criminalisation.

[TheWanderingUterus]

I support the RCM and BPAS.

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

No, Great, it isn't, I'm sorry you had to go through that

[ColdAndGloomy]

I'm not sure what to think on this. I agree that women should be able to choose to not be pregnant any more, but once the foetus is viable shouldn't the option be an early csection and a chance of life for the baby, rather than abortion? I know this could be very costly for neonatal wards but it seems like morally the right choice to me. Would be interested to hear arguments against this!

[notoTTIP]

I fully support a womens right to an abortion. I had a termination at 20 weeks for medical reasons. and I am very grateful that I was allowed it. It was for a planned pregnancy which went very wrong. I was devastated to have it, the only thing that would have made it worse is the worry of criminality. I was a member of a church group who gave me a lot of support. Late stage abortion is not always about not wanting a baby it is about saving a life.

[Andrewofgg]

The decision to have an abortion is a democratic decision with only one qualified voter and her motives are irrelevant.

And that includes sex-specific abortion.

And I have to admit that I enjoy watching the Guardianistas scratching their arses on the horns of a dilemma!

[AHellOfABird]

Try advance search for bumbleymummy's name if you want to read thread after thread with those arguments, ColdAndGloomy.

[AHellOfABird]

Tongue in cheek, i suspect, andrewofgg, but most gender specific abortions are of girls, I believe, and rooted in societal values more patriarchal than this one.

So break up the fence being sat on and smash the patriarchy with it

[chocorabbit]

How many women will be forced by their families, DP etc. to have abortions at a later stage as they have now got to know it because it has become visible and they will now shame the family etc? Oh, wait, statistics show not that many more so it should be fine

What kind of society are we? It's not only about the woman. I read (last year maybe?) in the Guardian an article where doctors were suggesting that like here where the baby wouldn't survive if born a bit earlier in late pregnancy if nobody looked after it (obviously) the same can happen after the baby has been born: they were actually discussing the possibility of allowing babies to not be looked after so they can die if nobody cares about them. Because newborns cannot decide for themselves. And what's next? I can kill you because I am stronger?

Where do we draw the line? When does a fetus start to have rights? Aside from any medical complications that compromise the pregnancy OBVIOUSLY. Let's just close our eyes and chant "let's trust women, they know"

kate is right in saying that women don't even know that they will actually have to give birth to a dead or dying baby. How long does it take for a fetus to die before they can induce labour so the dea now fetus can be born? They have to kill the fetus before the induce labour, don't they? I remember the Chinese lady last year in the news who was forced to have a late abortion because this would be her 2nd and the dead baby next to her


If medical staff observe signs of life, they may be required to provide care: emergency medical care if the child has a good chance of survival and palliative care if not. Induced fetal demise before termination of pregnancy after 20–21 weeks gestation is recommended to avoid this wikipedia

[AHellOfABird]

Women should be informed of the process ahead of time, as with all medical procedures, choc.

Did you read my link?

[BillSykesDog]

In Canada you can't get an abortion after 24 weeks unless there is an urgent reason such as severe malformation. It's against professional guidelines and doctors won't do it.

In Australia law varies from state to state, and is subject to charges of child destruction after 28 weeks in some cases. Most states limit it to 24 weeks or before.

New Zealand also limits to 24 weeks. So none of these countries show that abortion on demand up to term doesn't increase that demand, because none of them actually have it.

I'm not really sure what to make of the RCM statement, because it seems to be deliberately vague and doesn't really clarify exactly what they are supporting.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

On the other side of the coin, there was a dreadful case in Ireland of an underage, abused, pregnant woman being held in hospital until a cs could be carried out on her, and the baby adopted. That to me is barbaric - she did not want the baby, she was abused by her abuser and by the hospital staff/Irish abortion laws. She is not an incubator for a naice "adopting" couple. Made me think of the Magdelene Laundries.

[ColdAndGloomy]

AHellOfABird thanks - my advanced search skills are failing though and I'm not managing to find the relevant threads. Could you link to them?

[stareatthetvscreen]

horrific - just awful i think

[BillSykesDog]

Where was that Greenwood? Struggling to find reporting of it.

[Heartbroken4]

I have given birth to a dead, full-term Baby. I think it is easy to underestimate the effects of this unless one has been through it. It was not an abortion, but it is what a close to term abortion would be like, as one would have to give birth to the Baby. Most of you have no idea.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

BillSykes, I think this is the one www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/18/pregnant-suicidal-victim-ireland-abortion-law

[AHellOfABird]

I am sorry to hear that, heartbroken.

I absolutely believe women undertaking this medical procedure, as with any medical procedure, should be fully informed. If you look at my link of requests at 22 weeks and beyond, many are also in harrowing circumstances, not having realised they were pregnant, having drug problems etc.

[AHellOfABird]

They are supporting decriminalisation, AFAI can tell. It's still possible/likely that doctors wouldn't carry out the procedures.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

They are supporting decriminalisation - as is the case in Canada. Canada has no legal limit to abortions, it is dealt with by medical professionals, not criminal law.

[SoftDay]

Hi BillSykes, here is a link:
www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ms-y-to-sue-11-respondents-over-abortion-refusal-1.2357456

Ms Y was an asylum seeker who arrived in Ireland pregnant as a result of rape in her home country. She presented to the authorities early in her pregnancy seeking an abortion but does not seem to have been offered support/assistance or information on how to go about obtaining a temporary visa to travel to Britain.

When she next presented, I understand she was past the 20-week point. Under Ireland's extremely restrictive abortion law, she was actually deemed to be entitled to an abortion on the grounds of threat to life arising from risk of suicide. However, the pregnancy was deemed too advanced that point, so a C-section was performed at about 25 weeks. She is suing the State.