AIBU to think kittens belong to mother's owner

[WalkingBlind]

Without going into too much detail.... If a cat gets pregnant by a very specific (uncommon breed so noticeable) male cat while out at night (not my cat lol!) can the owners of the male cat hold any claim to the kittens if they're made aware of them?

Friend has spayed the mother now so no criticism needed but trying to help her with some dodgy neighbours and their unneutered tom.

Legally, the neighbours have no claim. There are plenty of moggies that look like Norwegian Forest Cats or Maine Coons, both breeds are "natural" breeds, they weren't created by cross-breeding, they're basically posh moggies*. Longhaired genes can be recessive so just because no male that your friend is aware of has that type of coat, doesn't mean that the neighbour's cat is the father.

Your friend could also add up all the costs of caring for the pregnant mother and kittens, as the mother needs to eat as much as possible and both mother and kittens need to eat kitten food. Then there's cat litter, heating, laundry etc. etc. So when that gets taken out of the equation, there is very rarely a "profit" for the greedy neighbours to share. Your friend could point out that even the pedigree breeders rarely make a profit, nevermind someone with moggy kittens.

The neighbours obviously think their boy is a "pedigree" making the kittens "cross-breeds" and therefore valuable. He's probably not a pedigree, as most breeders have a contractual demand that the cat be neutered. Your friend could ask to see the pedigree certificate. If the cat doesn't have one, he's not a pedigree, it's that simple. If it exists, it's almost certainly got the cat registered on the non-active register, which means those cats mustn't be used for breeding. Even if the cat is a pedigree, the kittens aren't valuable.

If the father of the kittens has a pedigree certificate, then your friend should make a careful note of the breeder's prefix. Say the cat's pedigree name was Starsmurf Furry Little Twerp. Starsmurf is the prefix name. Your friend can then try to find the breeder's contact details online or if that doesn't work, she can contact the Registering Body (eg GCCF, TICA, FIFe) and ask for help in contacting the breeder.

Let the breeder know that the father is

a) being allowed out without being in an enclosed, escape-proof garden (many breeders make that a condition of the sale)

and

b) un-neutered and has been allowed to breed, with the owners seeking to profit from this. This can mean that the owners have broken the contract they signed when they bought the cat. Technically, the breeder could even reclaim the cat. It's doubtful that they would but they might be "persuaded" to neuter the poor cat.

There's an old joke in cat breeding that sums up the amount of money to be made from it:

How do you make £5,000 by cat breeding?

Start with £10,000.

• Before anyone criticises me for being "nasty" about Maine Coons/Norwegian Forest Cats, I need to point out that there is a (rescue) Maine Coon snoozing at the end of the bed. I love him to bits, think he's a gorgeous cat and would have more Maine Coons/NFCs if it weren't for my cat not liking his own kind, due to growing up in a house where he had to fight for his food against 30+ cats.

Any chance of some pics of these kittens?

Surely in 8 weeks the kittens get a say in whether they live with mum or dad? I've yet to see any take the dad option, most want a human slave by then.

Forget Jezza Kyle this would be great on Judge Rinder.

"Any chance of some pics of these kittens?"

If there is a contract with Jermany Kyle then I am not sure that is possible. If you want see a picture of these kits then either buy the next edition of Yowlo or contact their publicity manager Cat Kitford.

There maybe concerns over privacy as kitty social services are assessing the suitablity of the dad because of the history of violence and sexual intercourse with under age kittys. The kitty mum doesn't want the birth father to know the whereabouts of the kittys. The kitty mum herself is very young so is considered to be a vulnerable kit. There will be a CAF meeting to discuss the situation later today.

MattDillonsPants has no problem with a cat being pregnant at 4 months old

I bought pedigree Maine Coons and had to sign s spaying agreement, also agree to keep them in which I did till we moved to the country, now they are the Terror of The Woods ( it's the sheer size of them!)

Oops posted too soon... They came at 13 weeks jabbed, wormed, chipped and with a sack load of pricy food, I don't think the (legitimate) breeder made a fortune.
Véy dubious motives for wanting a fluffy female, they're a bitch to groom anyway.

I have a little hussy somewhere nearby who is out regularly every year calling in the back courts. (I can hear her of an evening every April.)

As my grandmother would have said ..'No better than she ought to be.'

I'd probably give the owners of the Dad a kitten, but certainly not give them any money.

If they want to share the 'profit' they can share the mother and kitten costs!

You'd be a bit of an idiot to pay £150 for a main coon cross cross cross moggie.

I think I'm still going to advise her not to give them one, if they wanted a kitten surely they would have asked for one first rather than the money first and "failing that the fluffiest kitten" (still not exact quotes I've seen the messages though), either way think she wants to keep the fluffiest one which I'm relieved about.

Basically the message went along these lines "Hi X, we seen your kittens on FB and it's obvious our boy is the dad. Do you intend on sharing the profits with us? If you will not share the profits can we have the fluffiest kitten? Is it a girl? You know our boy is a valuable breed and that you will do the right thing, after all you wouldn't have them without us"

Friend replies (with me there) "Sorry it could be any tom that's the father so I didn't have any plans to send money. People have shown interest in all the kittens except a short-haired boy, I'm worried he will not get a home are you interested?"

Them "Well it's obvious because of how they look due to our boys breed. We want the fluffy girl how long do you plan on keeping her with mum? Obviously we won't need to pay for her it would be like a stud fee which cost a lot for pedigrees and you got for free.

Friend "He might not be the dad still, my friend says they can all have different dad's, leaving at 12 weeks"

Them "She can leave with us at 8 weeks, we can pick her up"

I've just told my friend to say she's keeping her (and if it was me I'd throw a fuck off in there for good measure). They don't want "a" kitten, to me they want a breedable commodity or why not take the unwanted one? (Which I've volunteered to take)

Also I agree you're a mug to pay for an expensive moggy but if Gumtree and Preloved are anything to go by and the animals on there actually sell then people are paying £££ just for moggies coz they have a popular colour

I would throw in a lecture about responsible pet ownership for good measure. They sound awful. Is there somewhere you can complain to locally about the intact male roaming around?

Just tell her to tell them no they aren't getting a kitten and all of them will be spayed or neutered before they leave. Tell her to say if they are that bothered they can try to take her to court for any cash they believe she owes them. TBH if they're that dodgy I wouldn't put it past them to try to steal the girl if shes keeping one (when shes let outside) and mentioning neutering might put them off.

If you have every seen cats mating you would be in no doubt that the mother cat could file a charge of rape against the Tom cat. In fact if there are two very distinct types of kitten it could even have been a gang rape involving his mates.

Wow, they're very persistent, aren't they? I can't believe they're trying to claim they did your friend some sort of favor by allowing their cat to roam around unchecked. I'd tell them they're not getting a kitten, then I wouldn't respond to them any longer.

God they sounds absolutely horrendous!! I'd get her to keep the kitten in until she is neutered just to be safe

I would message back.
Hi, they are not leaving my possession until they are 12 weeks at the earliest, depending on when they can all be neutered. You have no rights to any of the kittens. As I have already said, IF the short haired one's homing falls through then I might consider him living with you.

If they contact after that, I would just ignore the messages and depending how they go I would mention seeking legal advice for harassment.

I second the poster that says, be careful they don't try to steal one. Tell her to keep the doors and downstairs windows closed/locked from here on in. I wouldn't put it past them to steal the kitten before it's ready and try to hand rear it. They sound like a right bunch of fucks. I'm actually really angry about this.

Tell your friend to make sure she checks who is at the door before she opens it, as it sounds like they're going to arrive at her house and demand the kitten. Has she any close friends/family that could look after mum cat and her kittens when they reach the seven week mark, until they're chipped and spayed? It's amazing what these type of people are capable of.

Perhaps your friend should contact the RSPCA? I know it seems extreme but these neighbours seem to be planning to set up a backyard breeding business and possibly sell the kittens as fake pedigrees (which would be fraud and the police could get involved) hence wanting the "fluffiest kitten".

Your friend should tell them there is no money as raising the kittens has cost so much. Add in the bit about "even pedigree breeders don't make a profit!" as that might discourage their ideas of breeding. If they persist, I'd see what a solicitor could do, as that might scare them off.

The law means they don't have a valid claim but just in case there is something, the solicitor's letter could state that they would have to prove that the kittens are the offspring of their cat and that DNA testing would cost £XX per kitten. Require them to test the whole litter (not just the kitten they want), as they are claiming based on the value of the whole litter. Then add a list of costs of caring for the pregnant female and the kittens with vet costs, food, litter and all the other things (including small things like heating, hot water and cleaning materials). Having raised a litter of kittens, I am willing to bet that the costs will outweigh any potential profit which is the very most the neighbours could have a claim on.

If they try to take a kitten (theft) or harass your neighbour, she should call the police immediately. Make it clear this isn't just an argument between neighbours but that your friend is worried for the safety of her pets. I wondered if they might just come in and take the kitten they wanted, when your friend wasn't about, with a buyer already lined up so your friend couldn't get the kitten back. Make sure she leaves doors and windows locked, even when she's at home.

It might sound paranoid but the conversation about "picking her up when she's 8 weeks" despite your friends refusal and ignoring the standard advice that kittens need to stay with mum until they're at least 12-13 weeks old makes me worried that they have plans and they're going to carry them out whatever happens.

Sorry, the previous post was written yesterday and not added. Just wanted to state that I second what PovertyPain said.

You can't know who the dad is anyway.
I had a litter, Mum is black and white, had two tabbies, one tortie and one identical to a maine Coon!