to think Sainsbury's are really taking the piss?

[BuggerLumpsAnnoyed]

Basically, our local sainsbury's had taken loads of the normal tills out and replace them with a few more God forsaken self service machines. Now, personal feelings of hatred aside, they haven't increased the staff manning them, so, where there were four machines and one member of staff attending to them, there are now 8, and still one memeber of staff.

It really bloody takes the piss IMO. One poor sod, basically doing the job of 8 checkout assistants, as the things never fucking work, while everybody looks pissed off with their stupid light going off.

And if it wasn't bad enough, to get your car parking money back (one of those "you buy a ticket and its refunded in store" ones) you have to physically give it to said poor sod, who refunds you out of their bum bag, no option on the stupid till!

Right. Sorry for the rant. No, it doesn't get more interesting.

Our ASDA have replaced most tills with self-check outs. I especially hate the ones for trolleys as people take their time putting their shopping away. I can do it quickly or ask my children, husband etc. to help. But many people are VERY slow compared to the staff that normally scan and we always have angry people behind us, so fed up of the people ahead that can't contain their anger anymore.

At their manned tills there is never anybody. And if you want to use

My best bet WAS to use the self-check outs for baskets only. But then I can't put much in a basket. If I use a trolley I will be stuck in a trolley self check out with massive queues. So I started putting my shopping in my carrier bags and carry it on my shoulders as it's impossible to do it otherwise (I am small and weak) and then empty it back at the self ckeckout for baskets. Until I got accused of attempted theft while I was still inside the store shopping, tags on everything I was carrying, security guard was called, shoppers were looking at me being scorned, being told that other shoppers will see me doing it (well out of sheer desperation) and will do the same, as if I should act as an example to their customers because they can't handle it.

I walked out and have never gone there again. Now I prefer to walk a bit more and go to Tesco's where it's always so quiet and there are so many manned trolley check outs I could cry from happiness

You can contact Sainsburys to rate your shopping experience via the website printed on their receipt, which I do if need to comment on good/bad shopping experience. (Waitrose the same). Not sure how much notice they take but it helps to rant directly at those concerned.

Interacting with people on tills is neither here nor there for me. Some are nice, some are rude, some are bonkers. What I do like is that these huge monolithic supermarkets which Hoover up half my income are obliged to redistribute some of it by actually giving people jobs (albeit underpaid subsidised by the taxpayer jobs). However, I have not applied for such a job scanning barcodes on tills, so I seriously resent being coerced into doing it. They should give you a discount on your shopping if you're doing their job for them!

I don't mind self service tills, but I agree it should be one person supervising four at maximum. My local Asda has about a dozen small self service tills, plus a couple of those big conveyer belt ones so you can scan bigger shops. One person supervises all of them, and as they're afraid someone will steal their precious carrier bags, you have to find the guy to ask for one! It's chaos, as people are trying to scan their weekly shop, put clothes through that don't weigh properly etc.

As for self-scan checkouts saving the shop money... most of us where I work are employed on 16 hour a week contracts. Sick pay only payable after three days (so first three days unpaid). No benefits because of the reduced hour contracts...and at least we show customers where to find the pickled bloody beetroot! I'd like to see a machine do that!

If you get everyone to steal stuff then they will remove the self service tills once they realise shoplifting has increased markedly.

Self service tills are the Devil's work, and I say that as an introvert who will happily go whole days without talking to a single person. It's very bad for everyone. I don't quite go as far as saying that shops which over-rely on automation are asking to be stolen from, but I'm not far off.

The other thing that totally boils my piss is when there are loads of assistants stacking shelves, only one on the tills and a huge queue builds up. I have NEVER EVER seen the people stacking shelves notice the queue and hop on to a till - you always have to wait for the HELP MEEEE bell to ring (or if you're me, you say to them "Could you open another till please? There are eight people waiting" and they look at you like you've told them to eat their own mother).

*glassgarden The problem is not that machines can now do things that humans used to do
This is a GOOD thing

The SS machines aren't doing the job of a human though. They merely transfer the job to a different human - the customer now operates the till, not a supermarket employee. The work is still being done by a human, but now no-one is getting paid for it...

Also... I don't know... removing humans from everything seems a bit dystopian. Some things, fair enough - dangerous jobs for example. But then there's those "realistic" humanoid robots they are developig, and put forward the idea they could work in healthcare or teaching! Places where a real human is necessary. I don't want to go into an automated hosiptal and be treated by robot nurses! It just all seems to be taking the indicidualistic thing way too far - no community, not people working together, passing the time of day, but people battered with the message they are solely responsible for their own destiny, whilst living in a sterile, unatural environment devoid of human contact...

Why shouldn't the person benefitting from the goods do the menial work involved in purchasing them? It shares some of the work out. If society benefitted from the introduction of new technology rather than a few wealthy individuals the economic benefit would also be being transferred to the consumer as well as the work being shared out more fairly.

And TBH I don't think having humans perform menial work out of the home usually miles from their community fragments society, it doesn't build society. And we are talking about SS checkouts not robot doctors (ATM).

*i think

living in a sterile, unatural environment devoid of human contact

ah, so you want to live in a natural environment Oncetherewas?

what do you consider to be the natural environment for humans?
paleolithic man?
hunter-gatherer lifestyle?
clan based culture?

what are your criteria for natural?

humans, with their capacity for abstract thought and their opposable thumbs, are the species that communicates and co-operates to make things

therefore continued technological progress and cultural change is our natural state of being
we are continually becoming something else

Stock used to be stored on shelves and picked out, packaged and handed to the customer too. Did people complain about having to walk round a shop and pick up their own stuff too?

Besides we are a long way past having to farm/grow/slaughter/feed/gather our own food because of mechanisation, technology and so the work we have to do to eat is greatly reduced by using technology and scaling up and specialising production. Issues like washing machines etc are a problem for people because they increased their work but offered no buy in to the economy as a result of the loss of the jobs - the economic benefit went to the profit makers and is not well shared with the people who previously had manual jobs or the people who have taken on the extra work albeit much easier than before.

Places where a real human is necessary

what are these places?

it used to be necessary to have real humans doing countless things which now dont need to be done by people

I understand the sentiment behind your post, many of us find it hard to adjust to change but the logical conclusion of this argument is that we go back to doing everything by hand

2catsnowaiting there should be an I circled near the preview button. This will show you how to bold, delete, italic etc.
My local Asda was in absolute chaos at Christmas. They have removed half of manned tills and replaced with 8 SS so rammed together that prams and wheelchairs can't use without affecting whoever is using the next till. So next they put in 4 SS conveyorbelts taking away more manned tills. Christmas was hysterical when all the SS went down together for 2 days. The staff couldn't cope, trolleys were abandoned everywhere, shoplifters were on such a free for all that I swear the security barriers were singing carols.

If I go to a small shop, I use self service tills, but if I go to Sainsbury's and do a massive once a week family shop, then I prefer a till with a person on it simply because of the massive amount of stuff and the bagging area being so small.

I also hate if there are too many self service machines as there isn't really a proper queuing system. I always get someone nipping in before me, even though I'm watching all the tills like a hawk.

Stock used to be stored on shelves and picked out, packaged and handed to the customer too.

But I do get my shopping picked out, packaged and delivered to me - via online shopping.

Supermarket shopping seems to me to be going in two different directions - in-store shoppers having to do it all themselves (with temperamental machines, which is my main gripe with self-service check outs!) - but on the other hand, if you shop online, supermarkets are doing the whole shop for you and delivering it to your door.

Don't use the machines. They put people out of jobs. Always use a person. Even if you have to queue for a while.

Well yes but online shopping comes reduces their overheads and increased profits too (and if you like; puts people out of jobs).

I mean really are people really trying to argue that they, ethically, prefer an actual human being to perform menial and pointless labour that they could do themself (with the aid of a machine) simply because of an old fashioned idea that people must work for money, which is not actually a sustainable way to run a society that has virtually reached a tipping point of mechanisation and is likely going to make most types of unskilled jobs evaporate completely over the next 20 - 30 years?

That you think it is desirable to halt progress by trapping people in unproductive and low wage jobs (some that are not even paid because they are workfare) just for the sake of it?

falange .c'mon think it through, the king Canute stance looks valiant but it's wrong-headed and futile

I refer you to a previous post.

whois Mon 09-May-16 22:54:21
Serious question - do people think we should break up the tractors used on farms and go back to the ox and plough and many men toiling in the fields?

Should we go back ot hand milking for cows? Would you like to pay the cost of a pint of milk that took one man 5 mins at £7.20/hour to milk + associated cow costs and transport?

Would you like to go back to having women in huge laundrys wash sheets by hand or are you ok with washing machines?

Progress generally leads to lower numbers of low skilled jobs, and this idea is as a society we transition to higher value higher skilled jobs. Look at the way industry in the UK has changed over the past 100 years - self service check outs are just one more bit of mechanized progress.

I make a point of never using self serve checkouts. Stores are data mongers and every time you use a manned till it is noted and therefore creates demand in the system. It's the only way to keep them. Never mind the job cuts through efficiency

Does everyone mind doing a low skilled job, though? Which high skilled jobs would cover the shifts that some of the staff in Sainsburys need? Most work unsociable hours to fit in around other commitments such as study, parenthood, caring roles amd there are those who are approaching retirement age and want to scale down their hours or those who can't work full time for health reasons. Not everyone wants or needs to be a doctor or teacher. Some people really do just want a job and don't mind doing something mundane.

I think if there are job losses through things like self-service, they won't necessarily be replaced by jobs in other fields so it could theoretically just lead to higher unemployment rather than people diversifying their skills.

I also believe that comparisons to Woollies don't really fit. We are talking about food, which will never go out of fashion. People will always buy it

Well yeah, higher unemployment is what we want surely? If building the economy on paid unskilled work is not sustainable anymore because of technology.

People who have jobs that need to fit around kids are doing it for the money so that they can eat etc. It doesn't mean they would become unproductive in society, they would be caring for their communities, their children and their relatives, contributing to things other than simply scanning goods at a checkout for a private profit making company. Potentially anyway.

This whole idea about the idea of paid work is the only way to contribute to society/support your family is on its last legs. Jobs are going to be replaced and unemployment is going to go up. The government needs to actually think about a plan for how to manage this in the long term by harnessing the economic benefits of technology much better than it does today (sorting out the tax system, nationalising more industry, funding development of new technology that they retain economic interest and control over for example) and working out a new system for ensuring people can meet their basic needs without paid work (decent citizens income for example).

We are not there yet but should be planning for it.

But who is going to pay their bills? It can't be the government