To wish parents wouldn't yell/complain

[Tabithajacobson]

I'm a Cubs leader and have been for two years, assistant leader before that for 3 years, I really enjoy it but it's getting to a point now that I dread speaking to a parent.

We're probably one of the most active Pack groups in our district, lovely Beaver leaders and super active Scout group, so as a whole there's roughly a two year waiting list, for each section.

It's done by age and a bit by first come first served, Beavers get given priority when moving up to Cubs, so even if a child had their name on longer, once a Beaver turns 8, once theirs a space available it goes to them. It's the same with Cubs moving up to Scouts, the information is written on a sheet that's either handed to whomever is signing them up or emailed to them and yet almost every week I get an email/phone call from parents about the waiting list

To ask questions is perfectly fine, I'll happily answer but today I've been yelled at over the phone by a Dad who didn't realise that scouts have a separate waiting list , so although his DC is almost 10 and has been on the waiting list for a year, it's pointless for the DC to remain on our list as he probably won't get a place until he's past 10 and a half, in which case he'd be too old for Cubs.

I suggested a few Packs they could try and just got cursed at, 3rd bloody time this month!

Normally the waiting list issue wouldn't bug me so much, but one of our Cub Leaders, has had to stop coming down because of her pregnancy and our 2 young leaders are off for exams, which only leaves two Leaders to handle 23 Cubs and all the parents seem to do is complain.

"Why doesn't xxx have as many badges as vvv" because xxx hasn't put in the bloody work! But I don't say that.

"Xxx really dislikes this badge, can't you do another?" No , it's a challenge award and I have 3 Cubs that have to do it to gain their silver, and it also goes towards xxx's silver

"Xxx won't be at the parade because he only signed up to Thursday evenings" and yet he's at every theme park/camp/fun event

"My daughters brownie troop are so much active then you lot" then by all means volunteer and make it more active

"Xxx says that the kids are too noisy and that makes it hard to accomplish anything" xxx is the worst of the bunch! The kid who stayed under a table for 5 mins and who's Mum I've had to call in multiple times to pick him up early has the cheek to complain about other kids!

I like constructive criticism, it's the only way to improve our troop, but I don't get paid for this, I have a job and a family and they've no bloody right to yell at me, and if you're going to complain, then do it far away from me!

[t4gnut]

Blimey - anyone tries yelling at me on the phone they'd get hung up on repeatedly until they learnt to behave.

[RedToothBrush]

AndNowItsSeven Mon 09-May-16 13:26:34
It is unfair that leaving Cubs get a priority for scouts but don't also get waiting list time from Cubs to scouts transferred.
They should either be linked for both or neither.

Was that an offer to run the waiting list that I just heard?

[Tabithajacobson]

Andnowitseven, you want to help out with the list, I'll happily put you in charge of it.

Cubs get priority because they're already in the movement, they're not on the waiting list for scouts, they simply move up when they're of age and theirs a space available. Scouts is double our size anyway, so half the spaces go to kids on the waiting list.

Redtoothbrush, it really is a big sacrifice, not many people seem to realise how much Leaders give up or how hard they work, just so other people's kids can have a great time and opportunities they'd never have, but I do it because I enjoy it. The look on a kids face the first time they go fishing or camping or start a fire is pretty awesome.

[AndNowItsSeven]

I agree Cubs should get priority , however if someone grows out of the cub waiting list they should have those years waiting added to the scout list. I do see how that is complicated?

[RedToothBrush]

If its not that complicated then volunteer to manage it, instead of complaining.

[Duckdeamon]

It's not complaining to question policy on MN!

[Duckdeamon]

Perhaps part of the issue is that some families and DC do so many paid for clubs and regard volunteer ones in a similar light, and don't appreciate volunteers' time.

[RedToothBrush]

Well seeing as admission policy is different from troop to troop, it would seem more appropriate to volunteer there than to ask people who have no idea over the policy at another place.

[Duckdeamon]

Why is admission policy different in different troops? Are there parameters set by "the centre"

[tinyterrors]

My dcs have just started beavers and are loving it. Our pack has had problems with adult leaders not turning up every week so I've volunteered to help out every week. I used to be a guide and got so much out of it that I'm more than willing to give up my Thursday evening to help out at beavers and I'll help out at camps too if necessary (even though I hate camping).

There's a few parents at our pack that do nothing but complain about the slightly chaotic beginning and end of the sessions (what do you expect with two leaders, one who only turns up half the time, and 25 beavers) yet they won't volunteer to help out. Interestingly these are also the parents who are last to arrive for pick up.

[AndNowItsSeven]

• don't see .

[Tabithajacobson]

Andnowitsseven, each district deals with their waiting list their own way, some will have their DC in charge of every troop list and others will leave it to the troops to decide, we did have one massive waiting list a few years back but we encountered too many problems sharing a waiting list over 3 sections.

The easiest way for each section at my troop was for leaders to handle their own waiting list and update it themselves as we all had different methods I prefer the computer, whilst Beaver leaders write down everything in a book, which isn't ideal but it works for them.

All we're asking is for parents to sign them up on the right list, if they can sign them up for 1 then they can surely sign them up for 2, it's in no way my fault that they chose to ignore our advice, plenty of parents manage to follow our instructions, it's the ones that can't be bothered that end up calling and screaming.

[frazzled24]

So Tabitha - if that's your policy how are people supposed to make initial contact with you, if they aren't "on the inside"?

How do parents know which list you want them to sign if they don't know you personally?

This is the problem.

[Tabithajacobson]

Frazzled, DC's info is on our troop website, which anyone can find on google. He gives them the appropriate section leaders information and then they contact them, or they can walk in and ask to sign up, everyone gets the same info about which lists 2 sign up for, as I've previously stated its in capital letters and written in bold script. There is no being on the inside, everyone finds us the same way.

The issue for some is when they find us, people who've never been involved won't expect a waiting list and wait until their child is almost 6 before signing them up which makes it too late for most, but the majority hear through nursery or play group that someone has signed up their 4 year old and then do the same, word of mouth spreads and most people do get to join our troop for those who don't we recommend troops with less waiting lists and they happily go there, it's a small vocal minority that kick off.

[frazzled24]

Well maybe have a look; if you google:

scouts.org.uk/get-involved/
enquiryym.girlguiding.org.uk/

The cubs/scouts ones gives you phone numbers and names - which is great.
The brownies/guides one suggest you leave you details and effectively hope for the best.

I did that and got absolutely nowhere. Just each pack saying got no places, pass you onto the next, got no places, pass you onto the next - that actually went on for over 5 years. (Should I put that in capitals?), with the same packs repeatedly passing us on to the next. They did send us regular emails (every three months over that time) to say - no place for you - which is actually quite upsetting for a child under ten.

I'm not entirely convinced when you say "we recommend troops with less waiting lists and they happily go there".

I'm not trying to disrespect the work that people do. As I said previously, I worked with the cub scouts before for several years. But I think the registration/getting places is grossly unfair in some areas and it makes people angry. And if it were fair, maybe that extra pressure on leaders would be reduced.

[budgiegirl]

But I think the registration/getting places is grossly unfair in some areas and it makes people angry

Groups do run waiting lists in different ways, probably some will seem fairer than others. But the bottom line is that more children want to join than there are spaces, so unfortunately some children will miss out. It's not fair to shout at the leaders, who are doing the best they can.

The main problem is a national shortage of volunteers/leaders. To those who are so upset that their child misses out, why not volunteer so a second ( or third) pack/troop can open and alleviate some of the shortage of places? Don't get angry, do something about it. And don't sit and moan that nobody asked for help - get proactive!

[RedToothBrush]

Our group gives priority to the children of anyone who volunteers as a leader. So you could effectively 'jump the queue'. However seeing as leaders are the issue, its a fair system as it enables the group for other kids.

DS is not yet two. He'll get a space regardless due to DH, but there is a child younger than him on the waiting list!

[Tabithajacobson]

The waiting list sucks, but it's because spaces are so limited, but the earlier a child's name is down the more likely they'll get a place, the only way a child automatically gets a place, is if their parents are already in our troop, our Scout Leaders DC automatically got into Beavers because her Dad gives back to the troop, it's the only perk.

If we had more leaders, we'd be able to create more spaces but we don't, so a lot of kids do miss out, that does not allow parents regardless of how frustrated or angry they are to yell at me, it's the best system in place for us, it's up to parents to be proactive and get their child's name down on the right list.

[averylongtimeago]

Scouting and guiding run the waiting list thing differently.
In guiding, parents register their daughter's interest on the "Join Us" part of the website //www.girlguiding.org.uk
What happens next is that the leader of the group chosen gets an email alert. The leader then looks at how many others are on the list, how many are due to come up from rainbows or brownies (if applicable) and contacts the parent to say if or when a place is available. This is all recorded on the leaders part of the Join Us web site. The leader is then supposed to check regularly and update any contact with parents. We can't take anyone who has not been put on the system through join us. When someone phones me up or asks at a meeting, I have to tell them to go via join us, if there is a space I can go through the tick boxes on line straight away and register them.
In real life, leaders have lives outside of guiding, and may not deal with the endless paperwork as quickly as you would like.
So if I had an email today, I would reply saying the next intake is in September, your DD is on the list, but as she is only just 10 she might have to wait until after Christmas.We would then get back in touch after our team planning meeting at the end of the summer holidays.
Exceptions to this would be if she was already a guide and transferring from a other area (house move) , was the daughter of a new leader and we have (in our unit) always found a place for cared for children.

[redskytonight]

The trouble is because groups are closing because of lack of helpers there simply isn't places (in some areas) for all the children that want one.

I'm a Brownie leader. To get into our Brownie pack you need to
a) Have been a Rainbow (which means going on the Rainbow list before age 3)
OR
b) Go onto the Brownie list before you are 6
OR
c) be incredibly lucky

As most people who don't realize this don't even start thinking about brownies until their DD is 7 or nearly 7, they are simply never going to get a place in our area.

But no, these parents don't want to volunteer (or even travel a short distance to the unit that does have places)

[Civilservant]

In places where demand for places out-strips supply to that extent, more volunteers can't be found, the movement doesn't want to raise charges, and it could be done , I would prefer to see places given to DC whose parents can't afford or get their DC to other activities.

I know lots of DC who do Cubs or brownies in addition to many other, paid for activities.

[LunaLoveg00d]

I would prefer to see places given to DC whose parents can't afford or get their DC to other activities

Sorry but that's an outrageous suggestion! You cannot expect a Cub or Brownie leader, who is A VOLUNTEER, to take detailed financial information from a parent as to whether or not they can "afford" other activities, and use that as a basis to offer places.

The waiting list system isn't great - we've just had a lengthy wait for a guides place as the local district changed their procedures, Brown Owl didn't tell me and my daughter was very late onto the Guides list. But I don't see a fairer way of doing it.

[RedToothBrush]

I would prefer to see places given to DC whose parents can't afford or get their DC to other activities

Sorry but that's an outrageous suggestion! You cannot expect a Cub or Brownie leader, who is A VOLUNTEER, to take detailed financial information from a parent as to whether or not they can "afford" other activities, and use that as a basis to offer places.

Actually they do. Certainly the troops I know all do give priority to children who would not otherwise be able to join. DH's troop also take in Scouts on 'assisted places' where they don't have to pay subs if they are a hardship case. They have a diversity policy which they are obligated to adhere to where they can and this covers children from harder backgrounds.

However in order to do that, they also have to have enough children whose parents DO chip in so they can facilitate that both in terms of time and funding so they can subsidise the other children.

[momb]

OP you have my sympathies. My Guiding wobbles are 90% due to a few parents and 10% my own disorganisation, but on a bad day a horrid parent can really tip the balance!

Frazzled I'm sorry you had a poor experience with waiting lists within GG. They shouldn't have moved you on to anyone else's list ('referred you on') without your permission. It sounds as if you never made it onto anyone's list at all!

[honeysucklejasmine]

I'm a Brownie guider. I'm on mat leave at the moment, and asked parents to volunteer for one night each during my time off. About four parents agreed to help.

I am in the difficult position that one of my leaders is not popular with parents. (I wonder how many girls I'll have left when I go back!) However, without her, the unit would have to close. Volunteers aren't exactly ten a penny, and despite her lack of refined social skills, she knows her stuff and is very proactive. Excellent fundraiser too.

The most annoying thing for me is when letters aren't read and forms aren't returned. Frustrating doing everything five times as no-one paid attention the first four.