To wish parents wouldn't yell/complain

[Tabithajacobson]

I'm a Cubs leader and have been for two years, assistant leader before that for 3 years, I really enjoy it but it's getting to a point now that I dread speaking to a parent.

We're probably one of the most active Pack groups in our district, lovely Beaver leaders and super active Scout group, so as a whole there's roughly a two year waiting list, for each section.

It's done by age and a bit by first come first served, Beavers get given priority when moving up to Cubs, so even if a child had their name on longer, once a Beaver turns 8, once theirs a space available it goes to them. It's the same with Cubs moving up to Scouts, the information is written on a sheet that's either handed to whomever is signing them up or emailed to them and yet almost every week I get an email/phone call from parents about the waiting list

To ask questions is perfectly fine, I'll happily answer but today I've been yelled at over the phone by a Dad who didn't realise that scouts have a separate waiting list , so although his DC is almost 10 and has been on the waiting list for a year, it's pointless for the DC to remain on our list as he probably won't get a place until he's past 10 and a half, in which case he'd be too old for Cubs.

I suggested a few Packs they could try and just got cursed at, 3rd bloody time this month!

Normally the waiting list issue wouldn't bug me so much, but one of our Cub Leaders, has had to stop coming down because of her pregnancy and our 2 young leaders are off for exams, which only leaves two Leaders to handle 23 Cubs and all the parents seem to do is complain.

"Why doesn't xxx have as many badges as vvv" because xxx hasn't put in the bloody work! But I don't say that.

"Xxx really dislikes this badge, can't you do another?" No , it's a challenge award and I have 3 Cubs that have to do it to gain their silver, and it also goes towards xxx's silver

"Xxx won't be at the parade because he only signed up to Thursday evenings" and yet he's at every theme park/camp/fun event

"My daughters brownie troop are so much active then you lot" then by all means volunteer and make it more active

"Xxx says that the kids are too noisy and that makes it hard to accomplish anything" xxx is the worst of the bunch! The kid who stayed under a table for 5 mins and who's Mum I've had to call in multiple times to pick him up early has the cheek to complain about other kids!

I like constructive criticism, it's the only way to improve our troop, but I don't get paid for this, I have a job and a family and they've no bloody right to yell at me, and if you're going to complain, then do it far away from me!

[RaeSkywalker]

Yes shiny I think you're right. He actually talked to my Dad and I about whether he should provide the accounts and we all reached the conclusion that she'd probably just go around saying he was doing something dodgy if he didn't show her. It's a shame that he left because of 1 parent, but DB was coaching her eldest and she had 2 younger DC in the club as well- he decided that he couldn't handle 3 years of grief!

I'm not sure if legally he had to provide them if asked? Probably should've checked that out first...

[Indantherene]

I'm sorry you have to deal with such horrible parents. My DD goes to Brownies and she loves it. In fact she's been out with them all day today. Her leaders are fab .

When she went to Rainbows she was always one of 3 or 4 who turned up for every single church parade. Brownies is at a different church and seems to be only 3 times a year but unfortunately those 3 dates always clash with a sport DD does. I hate the idea they probably think I'm making excuses, but she genuinely does have other commitments.

If you've got parents who are downright rude you could just warn them 3 strikes and you're out, and point out you aren't obliged to keep their child in your group. It isn't school.

[ThornyBird]

madison I have 4 (sshhhh ) unit helpers - all aged 18-22 - with not a child between them. 2 are not in uniform and have no desire to be, 2 are young leaders. 3/4 are students at the local uni, 1 is in work.

They are brilliant and I love them for turning up when they can and just mucking in! The girls think they are fab because they are not old like me!

[MothertotheLordsofmisrule]

Madison - if your local groups are anything like my sons they will have you signed up and promised that it will be "only for a couple of years" before you've finished speaking your offer!
My mum has been doing Beavers for about 20 odd years.

[ThornyBird]

Superworm both my dd's do both scouting and guiding as dh is a uniformed Cub helper. As every unit/pack/colony is different, don't be afraid to let her try both and see which suits her. Ds2 is young enough that he cannot be left home alone when I do Brownies so he currently gets to do both too. My DC would rather I take him and keep a Guider than ban him and lose me.

[LarryStylison]

Sounds like some of these parents need their manners checked! Perhaps they should be going to Guides themselves!

[averylongtimeago]

Long time guider here, have run brownies (age 7-10) , guides (age 10-14) and senior section (rangers group, age 14-26). Not done Rainbows (5-7).
Mostly parents are fine, a few are absolutely wonderful, for example the dad who took all our kit in his trailer from the Midlands to London for a week long international jamboree (couldn't fit it in the coach) helped set up then returned a week later to strike camp and do the return journey. He even helped us put everything back into stores.
Over the last 24 years there have been a few occasions when the tiny minority of parents have got to me. A couple of times over the waiting list: one woman yelled down the phone how "outsiders" were stealing all the spaces. Well no, the spaces went to those who were on the waiting list, it's not my fault if you waited until your DD was nearly 8 to enquire about Brownies when others had been on the list since age 5.
Also the parents of the ones who can do no wrong..the parents who are always last to collect...who moan about lack of badges well do all the clauses then
But these are the minority, perhaps I have just been lucky. I am not a leader for the parents, I am a leader for the girls and because I enjoy it. I have made so many friends, and had so much fun.

By the way, if anyone is interested in joining Girlguiding, either as a girl or a leader, the place to look is at www.girl guiding.org.uk in the "Join us" section."

[MadameJosephine]

Just wanted to thank those in this thread for a reminder about waiting lists, just registered 3.5yo DD on waiting list for rainbows

[grumpysquash3]

Genuine question here.
What is the church parade that you are talking about? I have been a Beavers leader for 4 years, my DS has gone through Beavers/Cubs/just moving up to Scouts, and a 'parade' has never been mentioned. Or done, to my knowledge.

[RedToothBrush]

grumpy, it depends on the troop.

In our area there is a traditional local religious parade, a walking day parade (local holiday with historic religious roots), st George's day parade and remembrance sunday parade.

DH troop only do remembrance sunday - they are pretty secular - but that's not the case for all troops. Some groups are affiliated to a particular church and therefore participate more in church related activities.

[Ripeberry]

I remember years ago when my daughter tried Cubs (first time). It was only a small local group, but one week when the parents were dropping off the kids, the leader told them that one parent needed to stay behind as they were 'out of ratio' due to a helper being ill. All the parents ran away! Literally!
I being 'muggings' didn't know that it was the thing to do. So the session could continue as I stayed behind.
Didn't go again.

[Headofthehive55]

I ran a brownie group on my own. The parents were all informed that the place came with conditions attached. That they were in a parent rota, which I organised and displayed and sent out. I only unlocked the door at the start of the meeting time, and would only accept brownies when the parent helper was ready there waiting to join in.
Occasionally they swapped between themselves, but I never was without a helper or needed to cancel.

[RedToothBrush]

Well you did the right thing there Ripe.
I'm sure the group leaders they didn't have to have another child who viewed them as a baby sitting service.

God forbid you bother to help, and view it as being 'muggings'

Awful attitude.

[Saramel]

We had the same problem with waiting lists when my son wanted to be a Cub Scout so we went to another Pack a little further away. We were so pleased we did because he had amazing fun and chose to stay when the original Pack had space. We couldn't believe how much hard work the leaders put in, how much complaining the parents did and how few were willing to give up a couple of hours every so often to help out both at Cubs and Scouts. They thought nothing of letting the Leaders down at the last minute on hikes because it was a "bit cold" for their Darlings, taking no account of the amount of work the leader had put in or the other kids who couldn't go because there were too few of them. Sadly the leader didn't feel able to talk about doing something if you sign up for it or considering others because the parents would give him hell. So sad but indicative of the selfish society we have become.

[averylongtimeago]

Ripeberry that's a dreadfull attitude, God forbid you should actually help anyone else.

[donotreadtheDailyHeil]

I'm sorry you have to put up with such rudeness from parents OP. I think scout leaders etc do an amazing job.

The one thing I would say thought is do not condemn parents who don't help because you don't know if they are helping with other things, you can't do everything.

[averylongtimeago]

Church parade: it depends on the group. In our area the Scouts attend the Remembrance service and go to the St. George's day parade in town. Other areas may do more.

We only ask our Guides (plus brownies and senior section) to go to the local Remembrance day service and I must say we get a pretty good turn out, well over half and of the ones who didn't turn up, a couple were ill and a number of the others were involved with cadets or playing in the band.
Guiding is however a non religious organization, open to those of any faith or non, so attendance at any religious event is purely voluntary.

[frazzled24]

If cubs is simlar to brownies and they have the online waiting list, I can understand why it makes people angry. The brownies one - you choose three packs, your details get sent to one, they tell you they have no place and will refer you to the next.

For dd this meant her details were sent to around 15 packs repeatedly for five years and we'd get a regular stream of rejection emails.

Meanwhile her friends who weren't bothering with the waiting list got places. Other parents would tell me - don't bother with that, just "pressure" the leader of the one you want.

Fortunately somebody did tell us to put her name down for guides when she was 9 and she was lucky enough to eventually get a place at guides.

But I wish someone would look at the fairness and integrity of the system. My dd was regularly upset if she saw the rejection emails and frankly I couldn't explain to her why she never got a place when her friends were finding it easy to get them. They were also leaving for a year, re-joining at their leisure.

I have been a cub scout leader in the past and would have happily helped. But in five years, nobody ever asked me.

[Tabithajacobson]

It's only on rare occasions that we ask parents for help and it's only the usual few that ever sign up, but thankfully we haven't had a need for parental help until now.

Some parents are amazing, a Dad came out on camp with us even when his own DS had fallen ill the night before and couldn't come.

It really is a small majority that are just so unbearable but they're so damn vocal that they've become hard to ignore.

I've heard back from my DC and he's available to come next Thursday night, I wrote up the parent rota but I'm not sure if I should email parents with the dates available and ask them to pick and then the first to pick a date gets it.

The problem with that is, they'll just ignore the email or should I say, I've put you down on insert date to help as a parent volunteer, is that okay?

And I've got another letter, addressing adult behaviour and highlighting the fact that we don't get paid, it's not just an hour and a half a week etc I'll hand it out to each parent on the night, instead of emailing.

Frazzled24, the amount of parents I've had that try to pressure me into giving their DC a spot is incredulous, I'm not surprised Leaders give in.

I had one parent say I should give them a spot as their DC's grandad had recently passed away and they were struggling etc etc the child didn't even have their name on the waiting list, when I explained I had a number of kids on the list, the majority of whom, wouldn't get a space anyway as they only get it if there isn't a Beaver old enough to move up, which is rare, the Mum just screamed down the phone at me, asking what she should do about her heartbroken DC and that conversation wasn't that bad compared to some of the other conversations I've had.

MadamJosephine, I'm glad something good has come out of this thread, hope your DD enjoys rainbows when she joins.

[RedToothBrush]

The one thing I would say thought is do not condemn parents who don't help because you don't know if they are helping with other things, you can't do everything

Neither can leaders, who also have families...

Whilst not helping every week, the occasional giving back has to be a consideration when you sign your kids up. It not asking for help every week. Yet this is often seen as an unreasonable request.

I get sick of the fact that everyone else is too busy to do X, Y or Z when DH spends so much time doing stuff for other people's kids. Its ok to take that for granted though. He does it as he thinks it give kids opportunities they wouldn't have had otherwise, and because he thinks it is so good for kids development. He thinks its a crucial part of building the next generation who 'put back'.

Last summer we had a couple of weeks he was out doing something every night and at the weekend. He has taken time of work to look after other people's kids. He's been on weekends away to do training. He has done expensive training course so that the Scouts get extra activities. And there are all the group and district meetings.

He has a very stressful and responsible full time job. A job that means he often leaves the house at 7.30 and doesn't get home until after 7. He has gone straight to events from work. Its not the only thing he volunteers for either!

The thing is he's not special. Lots of people do. The number of people who do stuff for the community is surprisingly few. Its always the same faces.

People do have other commitments and family situations, but for the most part when people say they have no time, the reality of 'no time' is a very different concept and definition to the one he'd would use. I deeply resent the freeloaders who take time from our family and moan about being asked. If you have the time to complain you have the time to get up off your arse and do something no matter how small. The moaning also takes up extra time leaders don't have.

Yes there are kids who don't have the luxury of parents who can do this - but this stresses why parental involvement from others is even more important so that the extra works for activities for these kids can be taken on by the leaders. DH goes out of his way to ensure these kids still get the chance to do the same things. He has fought hard, when district made moves to make this more difficult. Yet more time over politics.

Sadly this is part of the reason Scouts is incredibly middle class, and the middle class parents don't make it any easier for Scouts to extend that to other kids by their attitudes.

Ultimately there are limits to what leaders can do. Every time a parent can't be arsed, there are knock on consequences. Leaders can not do everything.

Running a troop involves bookkeeping, building maintainence if they are lucky enough to have their own premises, administering these waiting list, booking trips, arranging for permit holders for special activities, budgeting food for camps - and buying it, ordering badges, keeping track of where kids are up to with their badges, organising fundraising events, making sure that everyone who needs to be is dbs checked, making sure permits are up to date, doing training and making sure others do their training, planning the next session and yep dealing with parents. I could think of other things if I took the time.

"But its one hour a week."

Asking parents for a few hours over the course of a year, might sound a lot to some but it really really isn't when you look at how much does go into providing the opportunity for their kids. It comes down to, do you want your kids to have that opportunity?

So when someone says the leaders must take into account parents other commitments a) they do and b) parents need to really understand what leaders are doing too.

Its a two way relationship.

[RedToothBrush]

The problem with that is, they'll just ignore the email or should I say, I've put you down on insert date to help as a parent volunteer, is that okay?

Our leader has done this.

He put the responsibility on parents to swap dates if they were unable to do this.

When this wasn't done, he has cancelled Scouts at late notice. This has annoyed parents but it does drive the point home that parental support is essential and the troop can't function without it.

He has also given kids the boot, if parents repeatedly offend (unless he knows there is a genuine reason they can't do it for family reasons. Given the nature of scouts, family issues are the business of scouts because of camps etc because of the pastoral care they provide, so its not being 'nosy')

[budgiegirl]

The one thing I would say thought is do not condemn parents who don't help because you don't know if they are helping with other things, you can't do everything

While that may be true for a few, and I appreciate that for many people committing to helping every week is too much, is it really the case that the parents of all 25 cubs who came on camp were so busy on a Sunday afternoon (they had to come and collect their DC anyway) that they couldn't stay for an extra hour to help pack up? Not one helped. Imagine if they'd all stayed, it would be done in 20 minutes.

[Headofthehive55]

I would just inform them of the rota. It's up to them to swap. Once I had one woman who said she hadn't got childcare for younger children, so she stayed with her toddler in the corner. It drove the message home.

Yes people do other things, but that like saying well I pay for ballet so I have no money left for football. If you want to do it then you need to help.

We are in a village, so we can see who does what, and people generally help out and run these things when their child is partaking then leave for the next parent to run it. If everyone took a turn there would be no problem.

I left when my DD left as most people seem to do here.

[KingLooieCatz]

Send the rota to everyone and it's their responsibility to find a swap if they can't do the one they are rota'd for. If they don't do their slot their child does not have a place. They also don't have a place if they are dropped off stupidly early or regularly collected late. My colleague did this, she said she had one or two arguments with parents but she stuck to her word. I don't think anyone could disagree with child being taken off waiting list if parent is abusive to leader.

I helped with Beavers for a while, DS wouldn't have got in otherwise. As soon as I said I could help he was offered a place. As it was rural and kids came from all over, for many it wasn't worth going home, so I thought if I'm going to me and DS over there in time I might as well stay, not worth going home in between. Turns out some other parents who came further all went to the pub en masse during Beavers. I only left when we moved house and was sad to go, there were some lovely children and I saw the value in children having adults outside their family that take an interest in them and their wellbeing.

[AndNowItsSeven]

It is unfair that leaving Cubs get a priority for scouts but don't also get waiting list time from Cubs to scouts transferred.
They should either be linked for both or neither.