To wish parents wouldn't yell/complain

[Tabithajacobson]

I'm a Cubs leader and have been for two years, assistant leader before that for 3 years, I really enjoy it but it's getting to a point now that I dread speaking to a parent.

We're probably one of the most active Pack groups in our district, lovely Beaver leaders and super active Scout group, so as a whole there's roughly a two year waiting list, for each section.

It's done by age and a bit by first come first served, Beavers get given priority when moving up to Cubs, so even if a child had their name on longer, once a Beaver turns 8, once theirs a space available it goes to them. It's the same with Cubs moving up to Scouts, the information is written on a sheet that's either handed to whomever is signing them up or emailed to them and yet almost every week I get an email/phone call from parents about the waiting list

To ask questions is perfectly fine, I'll happily answer but today I've been yelled at over the phone by a Dad who didn't realise that scouts have a separate waiting list , so although his DC is almost 10 and has been on the waiting list for a year, it's pointless for the DC to remain on our list as he probably won't get a place until he's past 10 and a half, in which case he'd be too old for Cubs.

I suggested a few Packs they could try and just got cursed at, 3rd bloody time this month!

Normally the waiting list issue wouldn't bug me so much, but one of our Cub Leaders, has had to stop coming down because of her pregnancy and our 2 young leaders are off for exams, which only leaves two Leaders to handle 23 Cubs and all the parents seem to do is complain.

"Why doesn't xxx have as many badges as vvv" because xxx hasn't put in the bloody work! But I don't say that.

"Xxx really dislikes this badge, can't you do another?" No , it's a challenge award and I have 3 Cubs that have to do it to gain their silver, and it also goes towards xxx's silver

"Xxx won't be at the parade because he only signed up to Thursday evenings" and yet he's at every theme park/camp/fun event

"My daughters brownie troop are so much active then you lot" then by all means volunteer and make it more active

"Xxx says that the kids are too noisy and that makes it hard to accomplish anything" xxx is the worst of the bunch! The kid who stayed under a table for 5 mins and who's Mum I've had to call in multiple times to pick him up early has the cheek to complain about other kids!

I like constructive criticism, it's the only way to improve our troop, but I don't get paid for this, I have a job and a family and they've no bloody right to yell at me, and if you're going to complain, then do it far away from me!

[oldestmumaintheworld]

Thank you randomer. I'm old and bossy and take no prisoners and I am my username (at least according to my children)! I also do this kind of stuff for a living so dealing with stroppy bastards aka challenging people is meat and drink. I can be nice. But I can also be horrid.

[3littlefrogs]

It isn't just cubs/scouts/guides etc. It is any voluntary organisation or club.
I have run toddler groups through to sports clubs on a voluntary basis for over 20 years.
IME only about 5% of parents help, the rest complain, demand, criticise and refuse to help.
It is soul destroying but it seems to be human nature unfortunately.
I don't know what the answer is TBH.

Thank goodness for the tiny percentage of people who do have some altruistic qualities - otherwise none of these groups or activities that are so beneficial for our Dc (and society as a whole) would exist.

[albertcampionscat]

YANBU. Bloody hell.

[Marynary]

YANBU. There is no excuse for shouting and rudeness anyway but the fact that you are a volunteer and are not paid makes it even worse. I think that you should point out to the next person who is rude and critical that you are not paid to be a cubs leader and if they feel they could do a better job they should perhaps volunteer their time as you do.

[DailyMailAreAFuckingJoke]

I wonder if you could make attendance at the fun bits contingent upon parade attendance? It seems bloody unfair that they pick and choose the rewards, without any of the 'duty' parts (which, remembering my B & GG promises, I am reasonably sure that 'duty' featured in there somewhere!). If a parent wants to whine about only wanting a once-a-week thing, then perhaps they need to find a different activity for their child?

[superwormissuperstrong]

Huge sympathies.
Sorry to jump on your thread but can I ask a simple question. Where I grew up the equivalent of scouting was mixed sex but am I right that in the UK it's single sex? I have a little girl - so is her starting point brownies and what age do they start. I will then search out a local one and see what the waiting list is. Sounds a nightmare but I think this is more my kind of thing to help with than school/pta type stuff.

[coffeeisnectar]

yanbu

My DD's are both in sea rangers. This is held on a Monday night. During the winter months they are at the unit learning things and in the summer months they are out on the water rowing, kayaking and canoeing.

Before they can get out on the water, all the boats need to have basic maintenance done on them. So the last bank holiday weekend they asked for the kids to go down on Sunday or Monday and put in some time prepping the equipment for the summer.

Out of nearly 25 girls there were 6 who turned up plus me and a couple of other parents. I spent two hours sanding down and re-varnishing wood on the boats while the kids sanded oars and re-varnished them.

Of course come the summer the rest of them will be there wanting to go out on the water and actually have fun. There are also issues with the buoyancy aids which certain girls do not look after and just fling them on the floor, the same girls who don't really help with putting things away.

It's always the same group of parents who volunteer to help, the same kids who actually put the effort in and it's bloody annoying when the rest of them get the same opportunities with no effort.

[GeezAJammyPeece]

Hi superworm!

In the UK, girls can join rainbows around 5, brownies around 7/8, guides around 10/11(?), ranger guides 16/18 (IIRC - its been a while since I was involved in guiding)
Its similar ages for boys brigade; anchor boys, junior section, company section, seniors.

Scouting used to be boys only, but has been open to girls for a number of years.
Your dd would follow the beavers, cubs, scouts path previously mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

So, your daughter could join guiding or scouting (or both!!)

Checking the girl guiding or scouting websites, you should be able to find contact details for local groups.

Alternatively, ask at/around school; staff or parents may be able to tell you where & when they meet and if there are any particularly great (or poor!) packs

[fatowl]

I'm a Guide leader (and Division Comissioner) and have just got back leading a two night Division Camp (95 girls)

One of the other leaders has cancelled her meeting tomorrow as she has no help, all her girls have just got back from camp, she is exhausted and hasn't seen her (pre-school) kids all weekend. She also took a day of her annual leave on Friday to come to the camp.
She's just had a stroppy email from a parent about there being no Guides tomorrow and how selfish she is.

I run the waiting lists for our Division (all the units except Senior Section are full), so I can advise parents on different units etc.
But you'll never please everyone, however much we try :-(

Coffee- that reminds me of when we were needing to sort and itemise all our camping gear - note the 95 families above who signed up for the camp. We got 5 people turn up to sort the tents a few weeks ago, and three of them weren't even coming to camp. We offered pizza as well!

[WreckingBallsInsideMyHead]

Rainbows is 5-7 (4-7 in ni)
Brownies 7-10
Guides 10-14/15
Senior section from 14 to 26th birthday

I believe beavers is from 6-8, cubs 8-10/11, scouts 10/11-14, explorers 14+ but I'm a guider so not sure of scouting. Scouting is mixed sex now, guiding still girls only

[Tabithajacobson]

Sorry I was away for so long, busy Sunday! Thank you for all the flowers and cake, I really needed them.

Oldestmuma, I contacted our DC and I'm just waiting for an email back, he's a really big guy, which is always a plus when dealing with people taking the piss, your ideas have given me hope that I can get this mess sorted out, so that I can look forward to meeting nights, I adore the kids and the activities which is the only reason I haven't walked out.

superworm, scouting is mixed sex, boys and girls can join from 6 as Beavers and then make their way up, whereas the girl guides, I think they're called are female only. rainbows, the beaver equivalent start at 6 as well I think, but I could be wrong about the age.

Coffeeis, we always have the same small group of parents that turn up, but then I make it clear that parents who help out and kids who put in the work, will be first choice for limited activities, we have a dodgeball tournament coming up and all of a sudden all the usual kids/parents who never help much are on their best behaviour but I'm still not picking them.

We use to have one massive waiting list, but it caused all sorts of issue, so we've stuck with section only waiting lists and the instructions are very clear, email the appropriate section leader, with the child's name, date of birth and details and they'll be put on the waiting list

It says in bold and capital letters 'WE ADVICE THAT YOU JOIN 2 WAITING LISTS. FOR THE SECTION YOU WISH YOUR CHILD TO JOIN NOW AND THEN THE SECTION THEY'LL BE MOVING ON TO'

It's not rocket science, just today I received an email from a Mum signing her 4 year old on to all 3 section waiting lists, more then likely he'll be a Beaver but it's best to cover your bases then only signing them up for 1.

It normally doesn't get to me, but with a lack of Leaders that only leaves, 2 of us to deal with the usual group of parents, which are thankfully in the minority.

I think I'll be making boring things like parades compulsory from now, to many kids never show up and I'll start working on a parent rota, I definetly agree that I have to set the boundary line, or they'll just keep pushing to get what they want, so it's time I took a stand.

[ThornyBird]

Brownie Guider here.

Fortunately we don't seem to have much problem with waiting lists other than Rainbows locally - most the Scout groups have spaces and the same for Brownies/Guides.

Equally I have been very VERY lucky with my parents, I always put on a our termly newsletter that we are volunteers though and all subs we receive go towards their Brownies.

We stopped doing church parades a couple of years ago as I wasn't willing to attend (have to go to Scout ones most months as my DC are both Scouts and Guides). I also take my youngest DS every week (it's either that or I can't run the unit anymore) and so far no one has taken issue.

Unfortunately none of our parents have agreed to take on the admin so I am currently trying to unraveling gift aid - the good news for the dc's scout group is I'm doing theirs at the same time as I might as well do 2 together I should start practising that 'no' word I think

[RandomMess]

Don't suppose you can act bursting into tears everyone time someone is a knob at you???

Hopefully some of them may just realise how awful they have been!

Hopefully the DC will help you out

[twelly]

Absolutely agree, leaders and those who provide support in other capacities give up their time freely, there is no comprehension on the part of some parents. The point about the brownies and church parade attendance is common with parents and therefore the brownies not seeing this as important. There was a thread recently over st George's day which was similar. The scouting and guiding movement have a huge difficulty attracting leaders etc and there is I am afraid little wonder way

[RaspberryOverload]

I'm Secretary on the Exec of a Scout Group.

I'm DBS checked, and help out when they are short, but we do have a reasonable parent rota (unfortunately that's slightly broken down at the moment, so I may get called out again).

I do the admin in conjunction with the GSL, and while I don't want to be a warranted leader I do a lot of behind the scenes stuff and occasional trips (but not camping), so I'm much more involved than being on the committee would suggest.

But it is a constant battle to get helpers, and while we have mostly lovely parents we do get complainers. We've now implemented the rule that parents must come into the building to collect children, including the Scouts, as that way we fulfil our safeguarding roles and also gives us a chance to speak to parents if required.

And it's not just Scouts/Guides, etc. I'm on a PTA as well, and unsurprisingly we get the same behaviour there. The parents who complain the most are nearly always the parents who do fuck all to help.

And if they just talked to us, they would find that helping us could be so simple, not necessarily having to be present at the meetings. I'm looking into funding websites to see whether we can apply for grants for specific stuff for our kit, any parent could help out by doing similar, it could be done anywhere and would be appreciated. There are ways to help if only the parents actualy talked to us (and yes, this has all been explained already....).

[budgiegirl]

OP, you are definitely NBU. I'm an assistant cub leader, and most of our parents are (luckily) very nice. But even then, there's always a few that just don't seem to realise how much hard work and time goes into organising and running meetings, camps, activities etc.

We do have a weekly parent rota, the parents are informed of this when their DCs sign up, it tends to work out at only one or two evenings per year. But some weeks parents just don't turn up. It can be very difficult when we need enough adults present, as we have a large pack.

Every time we have a camp, we ask for volunteers to help load the trailer at the scout hut, put up tents at camp, help clear up at the end of camp, and unload the trailer back at the scout hut again. Last year we had no volunteers at all, not one! We (the leaders) were absolutely exhausted (you don't get much sleep at cub camp, and it's physically demanding - and I'm not getting any younger!) but still we had to clear up, load and unload the trailer ourselves. Parents just pick up their kids and cleared off as quick as they could! It gets a bit soul destroying - luckily the kids are great, and worth all the effort !

Fatowl That's truly shocking! How selfish and entitled can a person get !

[MadisonMontgomery]

This thread is so sad, I was a rainbow, brownie, guide & ranger & I loved it. Sorry to de-rail, but how much work is involved in becoming a leader? I've thought about it before but I don't have children yet & not sure if this would be a barrier?

[ProcrastinatorGeneral]

We're about to wind up our toddler group after six years because there's just nobody about to help.

There's a metric fuckton of woe pouring forth from the parents who are going to be put out that we will no longer be about to provide warmth, toys, drinks, and food for them; but of about fifty families who use our group only four people have volunteered to help, and they can only do so now and again.

It sodding sucks to be a volunteer at times.

[ProcrastinatorGeneral]

Madison I was a helper at a Brownie pack for years when at uni, having no children isn't a barrier. Contact a local pack and ask :)

[budgiegirl]

And it's not just Scouts/Guides, etc. I'm on a PTA as well, and unsurprisingly we get the same behaviour there

I agree, my DH was a childrens football coach for 8 years, but has just recently given it up, as it's a thankless task. The kids were great, it was the parents who were difficult. They would stand on the sideline, moaning about tactics, team selection, over competitiveness, under competitiveness etc. DH, in the end, had had enough, and quit.

One parent , who had been very vocal about DH being 'too strict' with the team, took over. Witihn a season the team fell apart , because some of the kids (teenagers) messed about, and those who wanted to take it seriously got fed up at the lack of discipline. The team unfortunately folded.

It's always easier when you are on the outside looking in.

[GeezAJammyPeece]

Madison, absolutely no barrier!!
As you can probably gather by the tales on the thread, ANY pack would more than welcome your assistance!!

In terms of training; that depends on whether you want to volunteer as a 'helper' or as an acredited guider. there is a pack you work through to achieve your full warrant and as it is mostly stuff you would be doing as a regular hands-on volunteer (planning & leading activities, risk assessments, group paperwork, etc) , it seems silly not to do it!

[Kitsandkids]

I like to think I'm a good 'Beaver mum.' I always take them to church parade and any other event that's happening. And when I was asked if I could come along on a trip out it didn't even occur to me to say no. But I have noticed hardly any of the other Beavers turn up to church parade - my 2 always get to carry or accompany the flag! I think if you have a good reason for not going then fair enough, but I bet most of the parents just can't be bothered. And it's only held about once every 3 months!

My kids also go to another weekly club linked with a church but open to all children in the local area. The leaders are lovely but a bit 'soft' and occasionally I've had reports of my 2 not listening and just doing their own thing. Whenever that has happened I make them miss the next week because, as I tell them, 'the leaders don't get paid to put on this club. Why should they have to put up with bad behaviour?'

[RaeSkywalker]

budgie my DB stopped being a U11 coach for the same reason last year. One mother in particular used to harass him for a written breakdown of how the team was selected, and even asked for a copy of the accounts so that she could examine exactly where her (stupidly low) membership fees went. He provided this but then she called him to discuss it. She was paying £25 a season for goodness sake.

Alongside practice once a week, he was going to matches on Saturdays, and organised a lot of charity tournaments and club social events. He often had to wash kits too.

My brother is a genuinely lovely bloke and gets on so well with children, but he just couldn't handle the constant pressure from this one woman alongside his very full-on job. It's a real shame because he and his DP don't have children yet, so he has the time and energy to dedicate to volunteering. It just wasn't worth making himself ill over in the end!

Another of my friends is a cub leader, and told me today that after the last camp not a single child or parent said 'thank you' to her or the other leaders. It's just ridiculous.

[superwormissuperstrong]

Thanks all that replied! Off to find our local groups - promise to be a nice parent!

[shinynewusername]

One mother in particular used to harass him for a written breakdown of how the team was selected, and even asked for a copy of the accounts so that she could examine exactly where her (stupidly low) membership fees went. He provided this but then she called him to discuss it. She was paying £25 a season for goodness sake

Commiserations to your DB, Rae and this is not meant as a criticism of him at all, but his experience is a perfect illustration of the fact that, the more accommodating you are, the more you give people permission to take the piss. You have to set boundaries. But it took me many painful years to learn this