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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want a civil partnership rather than a marriage?

197 replies

victoriousponge · 07/05/2016 16:12

I'm in a happy, committed relationship. We were talking recently about the future, and are in agreement that marriage is not for us. However, if the option were available, we would enter into a civil partnership, but legally (as we are not a same sex couple) this is not an option.

I know that there is a challenge to this potentially going to the ECHR (although not sure what effect Brexit, if it happens, will have on that) but in the meantime AIBU to want this?

OP posts:
BoGrainger · 07/05/2016 20:21

Agree!

I wondered if anyone had varied the wording to 'wife and husband' and 'you now may kiss the bridegroom' without anyone tutting and looking skywards.

'I now pronounce you partners for life' and 'you may now kiss each other' sounds SO much better for the 21st century.

BoGrainger · 07/05/2016 20:24

My agree! was to livewyre otherwise it doesn't make senseConfused
Interesting, thanks oddboots

dotdotdotmustdash · 07/05/2016 20:47

*Use of the (rooted in discrimination) words 'husband'and 'wife' in the ceremony.

The sex discrimination on the certificate.

The patriarchal history behind marriage.

Those are the differences.*

I married in Scotland, the certificate lists both my parents.

My Dh and I only married for legal equality, it was done purely for our benefit with no regard to the history of the words or the ceremony. There are lots of words in history with discriminatory roots, but short of rewriting the dictionary we may as well use them to communicate with others. It's not a big deal.

livewyre · 07/05/2016 20:59

In Scotland, it is easier to take that attitude.

In England, sexism permeates the whole experience.

StatisticallyChallenged · 07/05/2016 21:07

I'm pretty sure you can get married in Scotland without using the words husband and wife - humanist ceremonies are fully legal here (so you really can say whatever you want pretty much) and I think these are the only legally required words:

""I solemnly declare that I know of no legal impediment why I, [your name], may not be joined in matrimony to [your partner's name]"

And mums on the marriage certificate as mentioned above too.

MangoMoon · 07/05/2016 21:10

So get married in Scotland then.
Simple.

English folk have eloped to Scotland to get married for centuries, it's not new.

livewyre · 07/05/2016 21:19

So, because things are a little better in the outdated patriarchal instiution in another country, we shouldn't campaign for equal access to a non-patriarchal arrangement where we live?

That makes sense. Not.

BatSegundo · 07/05/2016 21:20

Thanks to those like livewyre who have posted on the wording of ceremonies. I may consider formalising mine and DPs relationship in Scotland then, since we don't have to be husband and wife and our mums can be on the birth certificate. To whoever suggested mums could join in by being a witness, I presume that doesn't hold true if they're in an urn...

Gretna here we come Grin

BatSegundo · 07/05/2016 21:21

*marriage certificate - I think my mum's already on the birth one!

donotreadtheDailyHeil · 07/05/2016 21:29

A registry office wedding is effectively a marriage-lite. 10 minutes 2 witnesses job done.

People bandy around the phrase "first world problem" but this really is!

Original poster
victoriousponge · 07/05/2016 21:30

'I pronounce you partners for life' ...yes that's what I'd want the registrar to say. No husband/wife stuff...it's how we see each other anyway (life partners) but at some point legal validation would be helpful (no children together and no plans for any though, so there's no real hurry).

I'd be uncomfortable without my mum on the cert as well. No chance of her being a witness instead, as she died 20 years ago.

Can I just say that although I am not a fan of marriage, I completely understand why people do want to get married, be they opposite or same sex relationships, and I'm not saying EVERYONE should have a CP, ie let's abandon marriage. That's not it at all. I'd just like an alternative that wasn't doing nothing!

OP posts:
rememberthebacon · 07/05/2016 21:37

OP, I completely agree. I'm surprised people are so anti the idea, of they want a marriage then that's fine but why care if other people would rather a CP? It doesn't affect anyone else.

IWILLgiveupsugar · 07/05/2016 22:00

I find it offensive to be told I don't know or care about history or that I had some romantic ideal, just because I don't have a problem with the concept of marriage. I am very well aware of its roots, I just don't consider them relevant to what marriage means today.

I got married because I wanted all the legal rights and protections for both of us. Prior to my marriage my dp didn't even have legal parental responsibility for our child, which was an appalling state of affairs. I quite fancied not having to battle with his parents over important decisions if the worst ever happened. Believe me, as fond of my dh as I am, my decision to get wed hinged on more than a desire for a big white dress and a hankering for a mills and boon happy ending!

OddBoots · 07/05/2016 22:13

I don't have a fixed view, I am working through my thoughts and ideas here so if I see inconsistent that is why.

A big part of me wants the CP option for het couples but an even bigger part thinks that if that is achieved then we will struggle to fight for a fair and equal marriage in England. Then we will have to choose if we want a partnership that is balanced or if we want one that is legally recognised internationally. I don't want my children to have to choose between those things.

Ricardian · 07/05/2016 22:24

It's a straightforward political fact that CP for heterosexual couples simply isn't going to happen. There's a tiny number of people pushing for it, and there is for practical purposes no coherent claim they can make that they are materially disadvantaged (tenancies, pensions, next of kin rights, inheritance tax) which can't be solved by getting married. If they choose not to get married for a variety of reasons, all of them about personal choice, then that is seen as their choice. Civil Partnerships righted an obvious wrong (same-sex couples and tenancies, pensions, etc) within the political parameters of the day. Same sex marriage righted the "othering" of same-sex people, because time had moved on and Cameron was both willing to take on the CofE and keen to make the older/nastier end of his own party look isolated. Heterosexual civil partnerships right no substantial wrong, solve no practical problem, and aren't politically valuable to anyone. The rights and wrongs are not relevant: it simply isn't going to happen, because no-one cares enough to invest the political effort.

Iflyaway · 07/05/2016 22:35

we would enter into a civil partnership, but legally (as we are not a same sex couple) this is not an option.

What?! WTF? is all I can say....

If there ever was a reason to stay Remain, this is it. Living in an EU country you can marry or have a civil partnership no problem.. (just get to the lawyer and have it drawn up)...

I really thought it was the same in UK not NI, I know

on a personal level, so sorry you are having to deal with aberration...

DMjournosrscum · 07/05/2016 22:46

WtActualF? People are getting stressed over the words husband and wife. A marriage is what you make it and it's very sad you are allowing your relationship to be governed by words. Most husband and wife teams are completely equal. I don't get this at all talk about first world problems. Either get married or don't.

BonnieF · 08/05/2016 01:00

Ricardian,

I agree with your analysis of the political position.

There is no political advantage to be gained by either extending CP to all, or abolishing it on the basis that it has been rendered obsolete by same-sex marriage.

ForalltheSaints · 08/05/2016 07:39

My view is that now marriage is for same sex couples if they wish, that there should be no more civil partnerships. I was supportive of the law that allowed castles and historic houses and other venues to hold weddings, as to me if you marry in a church at least one of you should actually be a churchgoer and not just using the place as a venue.

Janeymoo50 · 08/05/2016 07:43

As a gay woman who can now marry (in 3 weeks eek) and who really wanted marriage and not "just" a CP, I think you are being a little unreasonable.

Andrewofgg · 08/05/2016 07:45

Janeymoo50

Flowers

galore!

JellyBellyKelly · 08/05/2016 08:08

You can get around the not having mothers mentioned on marriage certificate by having them as your witnesses.

Or declining to have your father's details entered, as I did not for feminist reasons (although a few years later with my more developed feminist head on, I'm glad I did) but because he's a Grade A cunt.

Ok, will make it harder to trace me through the ages, but meh. Can't have everything.

BonerSibary · 08/05/2016 08:10

If there ever was a reason to stay Remain, this is it. Living in an EU country you can marry or have a civil partnership no problem.. (just get to the lawyer and have it drawn up)...

Are you sure this is the case in all other EU countries?

herecomethepotatoes · 08/05/2016 08:20

Fuxache!

Biscuit all round I think.

And that's with my 'feminist' head on!

Myheartisbeating · 08/05/2016 08:35

My marriage certificate has both my parents and my husbands parents named and their professions listed. I didn't realise this was unusual. We got married in Scotland.