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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if it's a good thing that London has a Muslim mayor

612 replies

DoesFlossfloss · 06/05/2016 21:17

Because my London based in-laws are not happy and I've not been following the campaign as I'm not in London so don't really care. However, we're seeing PILs this weekend and it will be up for discussion.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
herecomethepotatoes · 08/05/2016 12:06

IPityThePontipines

"but the most well known or well reported problems in the world at the moment are from people calling themselves Muslims."

I think the rest of the sentence clarified my position.

OnlyLovers · 08/05/2016 12:24

people calling themselves Muslims

'calling themselves' being the operative phrase.

DoesFlossfloss · 08/05/2016 12:26

But I do think that people have every right to ask questions about these kinds of things, without having the conversation immediately shut down with accusations of racism. It is that that is worrying me

Agreed NewStatesman. My PILs are being called bigots, racists and wankers (charming Hmm) by people on this thread who are naive enough to think that SK's religion is irrelevant when it is obviously very relevant to him. It's like MNetters are falling over themselves to show how right on they are in celebrating a Muslim mayor. I will watch with more interest than (as a non Londoner) I have shown so far.

OP posts:
LookJustCancelTheCheque · 08/05/2016 12:32

Asking questions about someone being a Muslim is like asking questions about David Cameron because he is known to be a Christian and you're worried he might be a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

TheNewStatesman · 08/05/2016 12:35

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/08/the-secret-life-of-sadiq-khan-london-s-first-muslim-mayor.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

Has this been linked yet? It is by far the most balanced of all the articles I have seen so far on SK--and it is written by someone who knows him, Maajid Nawaz, a liberal Muslim and a former extremist, who know more about these issues than most people. It's really, really worth a read.

The digest verdict on SK, by the author of this article: He is not an extremist. But he does have a track record of gently flirting with extremists to win votes from certain demographics.

Such dodgy behavior is far from unique to SK--it is widespread among politicians in general.

But that's the whole point. When politicians in general do slightly shady stuff (think of UKIP and their many dodgy associations, for example), it's considered normal and appropriate for the public to ask questions about this. The fact that anyone trying to do this with regard to SK is being shut down with accusations of racism is deeply worrying and does not bode well for the future of healthy political debate in London.

TheNewStatesman · 08/05/2016 12:36

"Asking questions about someone being a Muslim is like asking questions about David Cameron because he is known to be a Christian and you're worried he might be a member of the Ku Klux Klan."

Except that we're not just asking questions about "being a Muslim"--we're asking questions about specific things he has done in the past. See the above linked article for specific examples.

LookJustCancelTheCheque · 08/05/2016 12:41

Khan has associated with extremists in his role as as human rights lawyer.

He has been photographed with Suliman Gani – as has Zac Goldsmith.

Floisme · 08/05/2016 12:44

How exactly was the conversation 'shut down'? If it was, nobody told the Goldsmith campaign or the Evening Standard. Or even David Cameron.

TheNewStatesman · 08/05/2016 13:01

"How exactly was the conversation 'shut down'?"

This thread is full of attempts to shut the discussion down.

"Khan has associated with extremists in his role as as human rights lawyer.He has been photographed with Suliman Gani – as has Zac Goldsmith."

Did you read the article I linked to above? There is more to it than that.

MN, who wrote the article, is also Muslim, incidentally.

Floisme · 08/05/2016 13:09

Disagreement is not the same as closing down.

There have been questions about Khan throughout the campaign. Michael Fallon was still alluding to them on the BBC yesterday so I am asking for examples as to where and how this conversation has been closed down.

BreakWindandFire · 08/05/2016 13:14

I'm delighted that the racist stereotyping of non-Muslims Asians in London failed as well. Goldsmith sent targeted leaflets to people with Hindu/Sikh/Tamil-sounding names stating that Khan wanted a wealth tax on their family jewellery.
'Cos we all know brown people are just covered in gold.

BertrandRussell · 08/05/2016 13:31

"This thread is full of attempts to shut the discussion down."

Really? How?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2016 14:23

It's not "shutting down discussion" to say that both Khan & Goldsmith have specifically targetted small ethnic groups in ways that make some of the rest of the population wary / uncomfortable.

It's not shutting anything down to say that people place different emphasis on what different politicians do, depending on their own political preferences.
However, it's worrying when this is based on their own ethnic or religious background, i.e. people who look like them / not them.

People change & develop.
It is to Khan's credit that he now has a very inclusive approach, indicated by his ditching of Livingston, promises to resource the police to tackle anti-semitism.
Also a very socially liberal one - strongly supporting womens' rights, same sex martiage.
Economically, he promised to be the most pro-business London Mayor.
Brave positions that have angered some on the Labour left (several Guardian comments about disloyalty to Corbyn) as well as some Muslims who are either socially conservative or - as Mehdi Hasan wrote in the New Statesman:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2013/03/sorry-truth-virus-anti-semitism-has-infected-british-muslim-community

So, most of us are optimistic about the new Mayor, or at least want to give him the same fair chance that we would give a non-Muslim politician.

Of course, same as for any other politician, if he deliberately breaks the key promises that got him elected, or tolerates corruption, he deserves to get hammered.

MintJulip · 08/05/2016 14:25

Great article NS, SOME quotes

The Regressive Left in Sadiq Khan’s Labour Party, and the Populist Right among Trump’s Republicans have made Islam a hot topic. The only way Islam will cease being an issue is when everyone, Muslim or not, is deemed to share the same rights, and is held to the very same liberal expectations.

The Regressive Left’s overuse of the word racism on such matters is as unhelpful as the Populist Right’s overuse of the word “extremist.”

It is as racist to ask these questions, and to have this conversation, as it was when Londoners questioned the white, non-Muslim former Labour mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, about his links to Islamists, or when the press question the white, non-Muslim Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, and the maverick white politician George Galloway over their ties to extremists.

"To imply that it is, and to hold Sadiq Khan to a lesser standard than his white colleagues merely because he is a brown Muslim, is the very bigotry of low expectations that fuels identity politics even further"

This reminds me of a comment earlier about " all brown people" .

it goes on about his sharing a platform and more with exremists whilst he himself is not one.

"Khan’s relationships with extremists ran so deep in fact, that he attended events for the jihadist rights group Cage, and wrote a foreword for one of their reports. Cage has since declared ISIS executioner ‘Jihadi-John’ to be a beautiful man live on the BBC.

Khan’s defence of such a prolific flirtation with Islamism is that he was a human rights lawyer. However, most of these events were not attended in his capacity as a lawyer at all. One suspects he was simply trying to gain votes."

BertrandRussell · 08/05/2016 14:28

""To imply that it is, and to hold Sadiq Khan to a lesser standard than his white colleagues merely because he is a brown Muslim, is the very bigotry of low expectations that fuels identity politics even further" "

This implies that anyone is doing that.

Floisme · 08/05/2016 14:28

These questions were aired throughout the campaign. Is anyone going to explain how the discussion has been 'closed down'?

BertrandRussell · 08/05/2016 14:31

What do you want Khan to answer to that he hasn't?

BillSykesDog · 08/05/2016 14:37

One suspects he was simply trying to gain votes

This is the thing that worries me the most about SK. I get the feeling that some of the dodgy things he said, he didn't believe, but he said them because he thought they would be vote winners with the people he was addressing at the time. I find him insincere and I think he says what people want to hear rather than anything he actually believes. He reminds me a lot of Tony Blair. As do the celebrations for him being elected. I hope he is not such a let down.

That said, he was still a better candidate than ZG. Which shows what a terrible choice ZG was.

MintJulip · 08/05/2016 14:45

Bill thats that the article above says, he rubbed shoulders with these people for votes.

Blu · 08/05/2016 14:56

So, OP, what exactly is it about a Muslim mayor that makes your ILs unhappy? You haven't said. Is it because he is a Muslim per se, or is it because of things he has done, said, or put in his manifesto?

GarlicShake · 08/05/2016 14:59

In Tooting, Sadiq did some ground-breaking work with the Sharia courts and other influential imams. I wasn't especially involved with local politics at the time, and only paid notice to this because the issues were mainly around family law and women's freedoms - divorce, forced marriage and so on. He was impressive.

Since I'm nowhere clued up about these matters I won't comment further, except to make the fairly obvious remark that you can't negotiate with powerful people unless they respect you. You won't gain their respect by standing on a public platform and spewing hate speech at them.

BertrandRussell · 08/05/2016 15:02

Politician does things to get votes. Who knew?

People are worrying about Khan being held to a lower standard than a non Muslim would be- I'm worried about him being held to a higher standard!

MintJulip · 08/05/2016 15:09

Garlic, thats a good point, if he has a "relationship" with these people ( extremists) he may be able to do more to influence them , than an "outsider" who they feel hostile too.

Oh give over BR, if he was osma bin laden himself you couldn't care as long as he called himself a Labour candidate.

BertrandRussell · 08/05/2016 15:18

"give over BR, if he was osma bin laden himself you couldn't care as long as he called himself a Labour candidate."

Eh?

Lweji · 08/05/2016 15:39

Wouldn't you BR?
Grin

I think that one was like saying Corbyn could be Hitler and you'd still vote for him. Godwin's law, Muslim version.