to think Roald Dahl's 'Revolting Rhymes' should be banned?

[SquareholeRoundpeg]

I know Dahl is a national treasure and children love a bit of gore and all that - but DH and I were shocked at some of the language used in some of the stories (it is not easy to shock DH!)

There is a line in the Cinderella story where the prince says of Cinderella, 'who is this dirty slut'. Had to pause on that part when reading to DS!

The language in the story shows how deeply engrained misogynistic attitudes are, and continue to be carried through in our children's literature.

How can this be allowed?!!!

YABU

FGS it said slut nearly 30 years ago, when I first read it at about 7 or 8 and my parents didn't give a shit. In fact, I only learned slut was a 'bad' word, and the modern context of it when the book was read to us at Brownies by Eagle Owl, who chose to censor the word. I asked my Dad why and he said it could mean either dirty and messy or it was a nasty word to use about ladies and we don't like nasty words, do we? No dad. End of conversation.

Personally I'm a fan of explaining words to DS (8) when he asks, but also telling him they're not pleasant to use. This is because I got called a cunt at school at about 12 and didn't know what it meant, so was further embarrassed when everyone laughed at my naivety. Better they hear it from you in a calm and controlled environment where they can learn the proper meaning and if you don't want them to use it.

Or you know, keep them in that bubble and have a very rude awakening when they get to Year 4 and start looking up all the rude words in the dictionary with their friends. OMG - do you think we should ban that too?! It's got ALL the rude words!!!

This thread has reminded me that I don't have a copy of Revolting Rhymes and I really must get one. It will make a good alternative to Captain Underpants.

As for Esio Trot, I think I have a copy as part of a set, but I doubt I've ever read it to my kids, just because it's cough not one of Dahl's better works I bet he thought it rubbish too.

What is the "unspeakably nasty thing" that The Swan has parallels to? Someone at least give me a clue?

I also change the words in books I read aloud

Schwabische, you can get away with that?! My DD notices and complains!

That's right: it would be difficult to read The Swan and not think of Jamie Bulger, most notably for the railway lines. It would probably never have been published if it had been written after that event. (The Mr Bean episode where he accidentally abducts a baby on his way to the funfair was delayed by a year for the same reason!)

Esio Trot: I remember my parents commenting on the "deception" at the time. It's funny how that children's story is all about adults. But maybe it's to do with the realisation by children that adults deceive them all the time:
"Your hamster has gone to sleep."
"Santa brings your presents."
"It will all be fine."
(And to Henwee in the Archers: "Mummy's on holiday.)

Although Esio Trot isn't a great book, the film is superb and resolves the deception of Mrs Silver really well.

aliphil of course they notice - I do it to make them laugh or to make them outraged...

Actually the youngest is just getting too old to want the same picture book again and again (he's into the 13 Story Tree House series now) but I used to put random words into the stories or rename characters after random household items when he asked for the same picture book for the millionth night in a row a year or two ago - it amused the older kids dispropoportionally and broke the monotony.

Read your child a different book if you don't like that one.

One of the Jacqueline Wilson books refers to somebody as a slut.

I loved Esio trot. I thought it was genius.

All books set in old fashioned times are going to have old fashioned attitudes and assumptions. .
Its no big deal!
We are all aware its old fashioned.
Reading enid blyton didnt make any of us assume that daddies worked in the city and mummies stay at home and cooks are fat and jolly and girls attempting anything the boys do are plucky and brave,
Its just oldfashioned.
And it was normal then.

And yes, slut meant slovenly and dirty

My mum called me a slut once. I was about 15 in 1985.

She was pointing out the state of my room at the time

May I recommend the genius that is Hilaire Belloc's Cautionary Tales for those who enjoy Strewwelpeter and the like? The illustrated versions are the best.

The only Dahl book I ever struggled with was The Magic Finger which, for some reason, terrified me as a child.
I loved Dahl's own favourite "Fantastic Mr. Fox" and Red Riding Hood, though, and still do!

Tanith , and Ogden Nash. Loved his stuff too when a child (and still do). Also Lear. It's all coming back to me.....

Roald Dahl was educated classically - he would have considered Cinderella to be set in a historical time. In the time of Chaucer which most writers who would have been educated privately as Dahl was would have studied throroughly used the word slut in its original meaning NOT to mean slatternly but to mean a kitchen maid, a drudge - a person who worked as Cinderella did in rags scrubbing floors or cleaning out the cooking range.
A dirty slut in that context means a kitchen maid or a drudge who is also dirty.
It is not in any way shape or form insulting unless you consider working hard in a menial capacity and being dirty because of it to be insulting.
I'm afraid most of the people here who see that phrase in this context as sexist or demeaning of females are reading something quite other than would have been intended.
I am extremely feminist and keen on equality but I don't see any benefit on basing my opinions on ignorance and misunderstanding. There are enough real battles to be fought with living people who actually do mean and intend patriarchal oppression. I'm sure Dahl did and was part of the patriarchy but this specific instance is not an example.

Actually I don't think six is too young. My ds is six and he has a very wide vocabulary of insults and swear words! Most of them were picked up from school but I wouldn't ever censor a word in a book, just explain why we shouldn't use it in conversation.

Teach him 'slut' then, as it's neither an insult nor a swear word.

It's a funny old place mumsnet. A thread not too long back was universally scandalised that a school read 'the lesson' by roger mcgough. I guess poor roger never got national treasure status.

Get the OP a copy of Rhyme Stew.

I let my DD (8) buy a copy and almost choked as she read it very loudly to most of Brixton market...

Haha, oh dear! I've just read some of Rhyme Stew online and suddenly remember that I read it from the school library aged nine.

The adult meanings went over my head a bit.