To think 7 & 8 year olds need car seats

[justalittlelemondrizzle]

My 7 & 8yo dds use booster seats in the car. Ive been shocked recently with people not bothering to use them. Dds were taken out last week by a friend. I asked if I should get the dd's seats and they said its fine as their 6yo doesn't need one anymore so my dds will be fine as theyre taller than her. Luckily dd's insisted they wanted their seats so I avoided a potentially awkward convo. I'm not one to preach to people about their parenting.
Another friend gave my eldest a lift home the other day, when she was dropped off, I went to the car and she wasn't sat on a booster and neither was her dd or 6yo son!
I took dds friend out today and she got in the back in the middle seat with no seat, I had a spare seat in the front for her and she moved but said she hadnt sat in one of these for ages.
These are all different children btw and none of them are taller than my eldest who is 125cm.
Is this the norm? Are people just not that fussed or am I OTT?

I think the law is usually in line with minimum safety Goat, rather than maximum, or all cars would get 5* on their crash tests etc.

I've taken to sending DS to friends' houses with a trunki booster seat backpack after he was dropped home on more than one occasion without a seat. Fortunately no one has taken offence, and I've had numerous comments asking where to get one.

I suspect that many people don't have spare booster seats lying around in case of need, we do but that's because I have made it a priority and won't have children in the car without one.

I agree, stillmoving. And surely it means that families need ever-bigger cars to fit all this hardware in and that it is less practical to liftShare, meaning more and bigger cars on the roads, meaning more risk?

Yes we can reduce risk for our children and ourselves but ultimately risk is always a part of life and there's a balance to be considered.

Totally agree. Personally I find it hard to understand why parents wouldn't prioritise using a hbb though where possible (bearing in mind that it sometimes isn't).

Perhaps a lot of people on this thread haven't watched the crash test videos on you tube.

Iggi the problem with buying car seats when you arrive in the UK is getting the child and the hire car from the airport to the car seat shop!

Car hire companies royally rip off anyone hiring a stage 2 car seat, charging more than a seat would cost new for a couple of days hire of seats that look as if they are not fit to be used - hard plastic barely covered with a scrap of not clean looking ragged cover IME.

Are the Trunki seats not HBBs?? I've thought of buying one for my youngest to avoid lugging a regular hbb (if we visit the UK this year I'll be on my own with 3 kids, and the advantage of a truki is that the child carries it themselves as a backpack) and thought they were hbb - obviously if they are just booster cushions that is a bit pointless, as carrying a booster cushion isn't that much of a problem compared to carrying a great big hbb!

Has anyone else looked at the label on their hbb? I did notice that one of ours actually said that after 25kg it should be used as a cushion - that was a stage 1/2/3 seat which had a label stating when to change between set ups. The other seat we have is good til 36kg but by 140cm tall DS (who does have broad shoulders) was not comfortable in it and was sitting in a cramped position - which was when he moved to a cushion.

A booster cushion does not offer the protection of a hbb but people saying they are useless are also being a bit dangerous as they do improve the fit of the seatbelt for bigger children in the 140-150cm height band. Few parents in reality will go out and import one of the very big XL seats from America when a child is already 140cm tall and not fitting into the hbb they have been using for 3 or 4 years, so kids over 35/36kg are realistically going to be either on a booster or nothing - and discounting the booster cushion is quite foolish unless in the odd car where the regular seat belts adjust down very low.

I wonder if everyone who has multiple kids in hbbs at the same time has their hbbs fitted properly too - lots are not meant to go in the middle seat, so 3 hbb across the back only works in a very, very limited number of cars with an equally limited range of hbbs. I don't claim to know whether a hbb in a poition not approved by the manufacturer is safer or less safe than the tallest middle seat child being on a booster.

But surely if you have 3 children you know you need to have three car seats. If they don't fit in your smaller car, you need a larger one. That's what happens when you have a larger family

If you travel, you take car seats with you if planning on driving. Yes it can be a pain, but you knew before child was born they would need that. You decide to travel, you accept the luggage

135cm is the minimum size. The rest of Europe has 150cm. So to me stopping at 135cm is crazy when they can still fit in a seat and be safer

After this thread, I adapted ds1 car seat to the bigger size. I'm 5'4 which is 162cm. I could fit in his seat comfortably. This is the Cybex one. So this seat should last him 5-12 years size wise. I think that's very cost effective over 6 years. We also only use car occasionally but I wouldn't just put a crappy seat in

Ds2 (nearly 8) only uses a booster. He's already way taller than the specified 125cm and nearly taller than the 135cm stated.
He did have a HBB, but got too big for it.
The basic boosters, not the HBB, but the booster, for older children, finishing primary children, under what premis did they get sold to us? I did actually know that HBB were advised, but I didn't actually know how useless the basic booster supposedly was.

But I hope it's not unreasonable for me to carry on using a booster, seeing as we are at the end of this.

I was driving at 18 when I was still under 150 cm, and some of my short friends were doing so at 16. 150 cm is a ridiculously high standard for booster seats.

When I learned to drive I had to have a cushion so I could reach the pedals. I used to think then they should do adult boosters while my mum thought booster seats were just, 'silly nonsense' for my much younger cousins.

She once said she would use a seat belt with one of my cousins and if he couldn't see out the window stick a couple of cushions under him. I don't think she believed me when I told her how dangerous it was.

Artandco I am talking about 3 bigger children (in my case one smaller and 2 who are over 140cm). When buying a hbb initially for a 4 or 5 year old few people really know how big that child will be at 8/9/10/11... It is utterly normal to mainly consider the child you have now and for the next couple of years.

I have just changed cars (unintentionally - the 7 seater we bought new before our 3rd child was born was meant to be our family car for the next 10 years, but it turned out to have constant and very significant reliability problems since the warrenty period ended, causing significant inconvenience on a regular basis and where we live it is absolutely unsustainable not to have a reliable car) and although it is all very easy from behind a keyboard to say I should have bought a car that fitted 3 hbb across the back, in reality I very much doubt many people would prioritise that when the taller two children between 145 and 150cm tall, and right on the high end of the hbb weight limit.

You might fit into your child's hbb, but not many adults are under 36kg...

Additionally people who have two children but give lifts to a 3rd child are not, in the real world, going to pay thousands and thousands more to buy a car they may be less comfortable driving and parking specifically to fit 3 hbbs in!

Some things sound "ideal" but are not actually remotely practical or realistic.

sashh on a complete tangent and out of curiosity - how did a cushion help you reach the pedals?

Perhaps a lot of people on this thread haven't watched the crash test videos on you tube.

Perhaps a a lot of people don't care what videos on you tube show. They just follow the guidelines laid he govt and follow them.

Personally I'm with still loving and think there is too much emphasis on safety and risk, it gives people a false sense of security thinking if you get an expensive car seat then all will be ok if your in an accident. You might not be ok no matter how much your car seat will cost.

You also need to consider the stats that are available about children hurt when they are inside a car in an accident, the percentage is tiny, way way less than 1% when you consider the amount of children doing car journeys every day so in that sense the risk is absolutely minute. By whipping up noise about safety all you are doing is preying on people's consciousness and making them paranoid.

150 cm is a ridiculously high standard for booster seats.
150 is unusually short for an adult.

This is the first I've heard about new rules and I spend all day on the Internet and watch the news every day... where did everyone else hear about them from?

Agree, Peggy. I can see that car seat manufacturers do well from this, though.

Someone above said airbags are designed for adults of over 75kg. That's quite worrying! I don't know any female adults who weigh that much. Are we supposed to sit in chairs too?

Schwab - of course I'm over 36kg, but on here people are saying their 135cm child is too tall or wide to fit in but under 36kg. I'm saying that if I can fit in seat at 163cm and 50Kg just to test then they would fit in one.

And yes. If you can't fit x3 car seats in car, how are you going to fit x3 large teenagers in the same car? Who will presumably be larger tHan the width of a car seat if so big they can't fit in one.

I think attitudes will slowly change, but it's going to take another decade to see the results. In the same way we now consider smoking outside to be the norm in public places, newer parents and kids will just accept that you keep using the correct seat in line with the law. I have always been surprised by the fuss about them TBH. I grew up in Germany where car seat legal expectations were much higher than the UK 's at the time and sticking kids on a booster seat was normal (most parents I knew used to keep one in the back of the car for younger passengers, when their child finally outgrew the height restrictions).

heron apparently height is the main thing - air bags are associated with some risks if you are under 5 ft 3 OR over 6 ft 3 apparently! Think it is because the air bag needs to be level with the sternum not head/neck or abdominal cavity!

American link

Although I am not sure how clear cut that is as I read somewhere (in connection with very elderly passengers in cars) that some very new airbag systems disable if the front seat occupant is under a certain weight - 45kg I think (lots of equipment in all areas of life, not just cars, assumes adults are over 45kg, which can be a problem with the very elderly sometimes).

Art if you have a large hbb you must know they are wider than the width of most adult - everyone knows car seats take up more space than adults do.

IME it was at about 140cm tall and about 32 or 33 kg that my older son became uncomfortable and started sitting oddly in a hbb - my daughter is a different shape and not as wide across the shoulders and back, and also longer in the leg and shorter in the body, and fit til she was a few cm taller.

I am saying that for the 10cm between 140cm and 150cm booster cushions are not useless at all - they are very useful to position the seatbelt correctly during that last 10cm or so until the car's correctly adjusted seat belt fits correctly.

imnotthatgirl - with their still growing delicate bones

that's really emotive language you are using - you wouldn't be trying to guilt someone into doing something they don't need to.

MrsHathaway - Doesn't have to be on a booster; is safer on it though

but is it safer if the seat belt fits correctly when the child isn't on the seat? just because they are a little higher doesn't make them safer.

Could I ask what risk are we actually talking about here? Are there any articles with statistics about 1) number of car accidents in which kids involved 2) comparison between those with or without 'correct' / ideal car seats at 10 years old (eg)?

I am not referring to emotive YouTube videos please; I'm referring to an article with numbers. I suspect the actual percentages of difference are tiny.
We cannot be thinking of things only in terms of risk. We also need to be thinking in terms of: common sense / good judgment / COST / overall hassle disruption etc.

If someone spends their life and ignores all cost (emotional and financial cost) they will spend their life unsuccessfully (IMO) trying to eliminate risk. Think of: food choices including bf / transport / terrorism risk / falls etc.

I speak as someone who works in mental health and deal with high risk (eg suicidality) on a daily basis. There is no way in life to eliminate all risk. Indeed, our life would be impoverished were we to do so.

And no: I don't have the money or the inclination to buy expensive HBBs for 9 year olds, to buy super expensive cars which I can't afford or to hire them at added expense which again I can't afford when travelling.

The booster isn't about their height off the car seat, it's about the positioning of the belt over their pelvis.

MrsHathaway - Doesn't have to be on a booster; is safer on it though

but is it safer if the seat belt fits correctly when the child isn't on the seat? just because they are a little higher doesn't make them safer.

If the seat belt fits correctly for the entire journey when the child is in the normal car seat (ie off the booster) then they're safe without the booster. That isn't the case for my 7yo whom I was talking about in that particular post.

He's absolutely the maximum height for his HBB as the headrest/shoulder rest part is in the right place for him now at its maximum extension. That means that very soon the HBB will not be safe for him to use, at which point we will drop him to the plain booster until such time as he passes the five tests to go without. It may well be that he passes them in DH's saloon more quickly than in my people carrier or vice versa - it's a measure of the child in the car rather than the just child himself.

The legal requirements are a minimum. I try not to live my parenting life by the minimum where my resources allow me to do more. stillloving makes a good point there regarding financial and emotional resources.

Off topic: why the ever-loving fuck do we have an Angry Bird emoticon () when we're still waiting for ?