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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

*LONG* (and a bit ranty) I am a horrible awful friend but am i really being that unreasonable...? i am prepared for a flaming btw...

81 replies

RoystonVaseySmegHead · 02/05/2016 14:08

one of my best friends is pregnant... lovely! i am so excited for her and i cant wait to spoil the baby rotten when s/he's born. But since i knew her (just under a year) she's been to a&e for quite a few non life threatening things... like 3 of the main things i can remember: she 'dislocated' her collarbone... turned out to be slight bruising... then she had an episode of feeling suicidal... so went to a&e again even though she has counselling and a contact for the local crisis team (i understand mental health and am completely for taking even small things seriously when you feel like taking your life!!)... but there are lots of things she's been for (at least 8 times in the last 6 months that have all turned out to be nothing) and i just feel like she's using the hospital for minor things that could be taken care of at the doctors.. like she could have made a same day appt for everything she's been for, or she could have contacted crisis etc. for mental health things... but now she's pregnant, she was really quite ill a week or so ago, and quite rightly went to hospital and was admitted. turns out she has HG. but last night the sickness pills stopped working and she's been sick today but can keep water down afaik... but she's going back to a&e again today anyway because if it... tried talking her into phoning 111, finding out if out of hours or walk in are open.. and she cant be bothered with any of those because 'they take too long'. AIBU to think she's taking the piss a bit?! if anything happens it seems like the first place shell go is a&e, and its grating quite a lot now, but i cnt decide if im being unreasonable but i probably am.. and now i feel like an awful friend for thinking these things about her when i know what its like myself to be throwing up morning noon and night... what are your opinions on it? like i said in thread title, i am perfectly open to being flamed for being so unsupportive but can i add i havent actually told my friend any of this and have offered to go with her if she needs someone else there apart from her DP because he can be bit of a killjoy/ very unsupportive at times Sad sorry for the rant by the way :/

OP posts:
Beepbopboop · 02/05/2016 20:07

Yanbu
My relative had severe multiple (5) fractures and bleeding and had to wait 16 hours at A&E to be seen, 18 for X-ray, and 20 to be admitted, because of people like her wasting time.
Sitting for 20 hours in a metal chair with no pain relief accounts to torture imo.

GraysAnalogy · 02/05/2016 20:09

20 hours is a travesty. Makes me appreciate the A&E here. Only a small percentage breach 4 hours.

RoystonVaseySmegHead · 02/05/2016 20:13

A few of you have said it, but that's what I meant, she's keeping water down fine, she just feels sick. I told her to keep drinking because she wasn't being sick and she wouldn't get better until she did, and she said she Never drinks much when she's ill. The first time she was quite seriously ill, and I accept that she was and I told her to go when she said she felt faint and dizzy. I do know how she feels actually... To whoever said that (sorry I can't 'tag' you, my phones sully and deletes my comment when I scroll up) Hmm but it's not the HG that's bothering me as such, she got 'diagnosed' today when she went, last time they said she could've had a stomach bug as well as morning sickness... It's the fact that she'll go for any old ache and pain expecting it to be something serious... And then when she's been in the past they've given her solutions or things she can do to help, and she doesn't do it and ends up going there again. Not sure who said about her shoulder/collarbone but she was cheery and moving her arm on the way to the hospital, no swelling or anything until the next day... I just don't understand how people can justify making the decision and then going to a&e in the 10 minutes after something happens, without ringing the doctors to see if it's something they can sort out instead of using a nurses time when there are far more serious cases that need attention :(

OP posts:
RoystonVaseySmegHead · 02/05/2016 20:16

Sorry pressed post too soon, when I say the first part of last message, she texted and said she'd not had a drink since 2am this morning, then waited to go to a&e til 4.... She knew things tm could go bad really quick but she didn't try to help herself at all by forcing herself to take a sip every 10 minutes or so

OP posts:
Potatoface2 · 02/05/2016 20:36

the emergency department will have noted her regular attendance there....it will be flagged up as soon as she books in....im surprised someone hasnt said anything to her yet....or they soon will do, especially if none of her attendances have resulted in her admission to any ward

NeedsAsockamnesty · 02/05/2016 20:54

A&E with HG when you can keep fluids down just fine is unnecessary. Speaking from bitter, bitter experience, A&E is for when you're bad enough to need intervention

Sorry stratters but someone with sever HG whose had it a fair few times or for a significant length of time or has a very very quick slide from hydrated and normal to dehydrated should apsolutly go to A&E if they are unfortunate enough to not have a Consultant with enough knowledge to instigate a decent care plan or a GP/OOH willing to treat it before it gets dangerious.

A lot of women who are considered sever or have quick slides down need to access drugs that a huge amount of GP's are unwilling to prescribe without the say so of a consultant or need various combos of injections in order to avoid serious damage often the type of damage that can occur before you realise it or before any medical practitioner realises it and often before a drip admittance.

It can make the difference between needing a significant intervention admitance and not needing any admitance at all.

Unfortunately in reality what happens when you use other services like say a drop in is you encounter a doc who is unwilling to prescribe or administer any treatment at all but is willing to ambulance you to the nearest day assesment unit this can waste about 7 hours and still you are not any closer to finding someone to treat you.

Without a care plan or a seriously well briefed and understanding GP it can be almost impossible to see your own GP quickly enough to get the fairly low level treatment that can in many woman halt a full blown really bad attack,

Without someone in a day assesment unit who is aware of you or has the foresight to read and understand your notes you can again suffer a massive delay.

This tends not to happen in A&E because to be quite frank the first course of action for someone who is a bit green and can't stop heaving despite being able to keep down some liquids is usually flaming obvious and can be done by the triage nurse.

From someone whose gone from sat there heaving but able to sip diet coke, no keytones but nitrates and white blood cells, not looking to hot but able to verbalise what I needed to unconscious on the floor bleeding out of my mouth and arse needing admittance to HDU in less than 3 hours and way more times than once.

On all bar one occasion several HCP's involved in my care have confirmed that a simple injection combo would have prevented the issue.

grumpysquash3 · 02/05/2016 22:35

Feeling sick without being sick is absolutely not HG.
Being sick a lot, 24/7 is mild HG
Being sick relentlessly, barely any time without retching, with severe dehydration is HG and must be dealt with.
They are different.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 02/05/2016 23:28

grumpy

HG is an episodic condition often with frequent periods of recovery or relapse.

woman with a DX of HG who have recently had an admission feeling excessively sick without being sick and struggling to actually drink reasonable levels of fluid due to feeling so sick can have there entire pregnancy outcomes significantly improved by receiving appropriate meds in a way they can take.

Well treated HG with a daily management plan can result in far fewer TOP's far fewer early inductions far fewer malnourished mothers,lower rates of PND, less dental work, as well as many other things.

Nobody with a DX of HG should have to wait until they cannot stop puking before they can get treatment.

But sadly that is what happens when HCP's do not view condition management as a thing and view drip admissions as a sole indicator of the condition.

Someone with very well managed HG may not have more than 1 admission, if they have a significant history of HG (several pregnancies) they could go an entire pregnancy with no admissions and could potentially rarely even have high level keytones. This does not mean they don't have HG it just means they have a very good doctor and consultant who take a proactive approach.however they may very well spend the majority of their pregnancy feeling like they can't see properly and like they are at that 'I'm so fucking drunk the room is spinning and even holding on to the bed won't stop it stage of not being but feeling sick' despite not touching a drop of booze

Stratter5 · 02/05/2016 23:31

Need I had severe HG with all of my pregnancies, from week 8 right through to delivery. I spent more time in hospital than at home. If you can keep fluids down and are hydrated you do not need to go to A&E.

If you cannot keep fluids down, that's another matter. OP's 'friend' could, therefore OOH or her GP would have been more appropriate.

Stratter5 · 02/05/2016 23:36

^ that's pretty well documented on MN, I've lost count of how often I've spoken about it. DD2 was induced at 36w because it was so severe. I spent most of both pregnancies on a drip.

I know exactly what HG is like. This was not an A&E instance.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 02/05/2016 23:56

It may very well be more appropriate but if she has the misfortune of being in a area where drop ins or ooh won't treat without being at admitance stage and/or has a GP who refuses to prescribe anti sickness meds (tablets or injectables) as lots and lots of women do then A&E would be the next most appropriate place and chances are the only way someone has of obtaining any treatment.

It is a sad fact that due to misunderstanding and old fashioned treatment many women with HG are not receiving adiquate treatment and are as a result having more serious admissions and more frequent ones.

Across all my pregnancies ive had some quite serious intervention ranging from spending an entire pregnancy in hospital to one where I ended up in a coma and nearly died to having two TOP's one as a life saving essential (post 24 weeks) the other because I couldn't get decent treatment and couldn't face it. in comparasion to the current one where I have only had 1 admittance, the only difference between then and now is now I have a very good consultant who specialises in HG and likes to aim for as few admitances as possible. I still have what is medically considered to be a very sever case of HG I still feel like a pile of shit I still regularly without notice or warning puke all over myself I still have the same horrible mouth pretend liquid thing going on ive still lost a fuck ton load of weight, I'm still prohibited from driving (as of Friday just gone and until my doctor tells me otherwise) BUT I'm likely to spend far less time in hospital I'm also far more likely to get past 34 weeks and far less likely to suffer from any of the more serious interventions ive experanced before.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 03/05/2016 00:06

FWIW my care plan actually states if unable to obtain a combo injection of x and x within 5 hours on onset of early symptoms (I have a few symptoms that mean if not treated a pretty bad episode is about to happen) then go to A&E.

And obviously that is written in my notes and a seperate letter from the consultant.

Ive only had to do it twice because thankfully my GP is great and is happy to work with the consultant and most of the time will fit me in. Once I had to go to the drop in they refused to treat and left me waiting hours then ambulanced me to the wrong clinic who also refused to treat (because they were the wrong clinic) by that time I was unable to comunicate so that's what led up to the 1 admission.

lljkk · 03/05/2016 11:32

Wrong to visit A&E repeatedly for minor self-limiting conditions (sure sounds like they are).

I have no clue what OP can do about it, though.

ameliaesmith · 03/05/2016 11:44

YANBU, my friend works in A&E and the story she can tell about the ludicrous things people come in with would be hilarious if they werent so infuriating!

Sallystyle · 03/05/2016 11:48

If she has health anxiety like I do then I feel sorry for her. It's a nasty illness and when I'm bad I live my life petrified of every thing health related.

I have never been to A&E with my fears but it has taken a lot of effort not to go in at times. I can't describe the real fear and the never ending panic attacks. It takes every ounce of my strength at times not to rush to the GP/ A&E.

If she has HA she needs to discuss it with a GP and go for CBT.

If she doesn't have health anxiety then my sympathy drops. I know someone who is always up the hospital for herself she doesn't have anxiety, she just thinks she should get to see someone the same day for any minor aliment.

Stratter5 · 03/05/2016 11:49

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but it's quite clear in the OP that she went because she couldn't be bothered with OOH etc.

BoatyMcBoat · 03/05/2016 12:07

You say you'd never judge her to her face as that would be awful. TBH I think you've got yourself arse about tit there. You are being thoroughly dishonest with your friend, and allowing her to continue in behaviour which many people think is wrong - and judge her for.

I would be so hurt by your behaviour, your dishonesty towards me if I were her. I would cut you off as untrustworthy and dishonest, not to mention judgemental.

I think what you're doing is far far worse than talking to her about it.

Saramel · 03/05/2016 12:17

I think you should walk a mile in her shoes before you judge her. Twice with elderly relatives I have called a GP and had no joy. Eventually I took them to A&E in desperation, both were admitted with life threatening conditions. One of them didn't ever come home and I can't help wondering if they would have done if they'd received the treatment earlier.

Enjoyingthepeace · 03/05/2016 12:20

I would be pleased she's going.

She sounds like she maybe has mental health issues and if she keeps going,she will be identified as a person in need of additional support when she has her baby.

MsHoolie · 03/05/2016 12:25

One of my sisters does this.
A&E all the time for the slightest thing!

I am not a psychiatrist but my take on it is that it is just attention seeking behaviour, verging on Munchausen's syndrome.
She is the eldest of 6, and as her 5 siblings arrived she got less and less attention from our parents. (I do empathise with that. I was the youngest, so got LOADS of attention, as a result am somewhat overconfident and use google to diagnose everything instead of my GP!! Only thing I have had to go to my GP for in 10 years was to get him to refer me for breast cancer!)

When she was 12 she broke her tailbone, and got ALL the attention for SO long, I think that planted a seed with her.
She's always got some ailment, but has learned that just being 'GP' ill is not enough, only 'having' to go to A&E gets her attention.
Bloody nightmare.
She is always asking for lifts too, so we end up sat in A&E for 5 hours waiting for doctor's to tell her she has a tummy bug not dysentry etc!!

She was the same with her kid, so be prepared for more of the same from your friend!!

Wheelerdeeler · 03/05/2016 12:43

How is she a "best friend" if you have only known her less than a year?

bigbuttons · 03/05/2016 13:04

I was going to say Munchausen's too.

bigbuttons · 03/05/2016 13:04

When the baby arrives she'll do it by proxy probably.

Doingmybestmum · 03/05/2016 13:13

Interesting that her DP, who is presumably the father of expected child, is not as supportive as you - ever wondered why? Step back and let her and her DP sort themselves out, MH issues can surface in many ways and no one knows what is happening in someone else's head. Not flaming, just trying to add some perspective.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 03/05/2016 13:40

Fabricated illness is quite different to health anxiety and both aren't a guarantee of doing anything 'by proxy' when you have a baby.

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