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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think my work sickness record shouldn't include time off to care for sick children?

60 replies

Shamalamalam · 02/05/2016 09:19

I've had 3 incidents of sickness in a year so have to have a meeting tomorrow.

I've actually only had 3 days and only 1 of them was me, but they're considered to be separate incidents so I have to go and explain myself.

I've had 1 day with a d&v bug.

The week before last DD2 had a horrible bug - DH normally covers when the kids are off school sick as he can work from home, but he had a couple of things he couldn't miss so we shared it between us.

She was sent home early Monday - DH picked her up. I was at home with her Tuesday, DH did Wednesday and Thursday, I was off again with her on Friday. Because I went back in on the Weds and Thurs, they consider it to be 2 separate incidents even though it was the same illness

I get paid sick pay, but I don't get paid when off with the children.

I thought that type of emergency leave when dealing with sick children was different to my own sick leave but they've lumped it all together.

So, aibu to think it's been recorded incorrectly and that my sickness record shouldn't include unpaid leave to care for sick kids

Thanks!

OP posts:
WeAllHaveWings · 02/05/2016 09:41

From GOV website and how out work also interprets it : If your child falls ill you could take time off to go to the doctor and make care arrangements. Your employer may then ask you to take annual leave or parental leave if you want to look after your child for longer.

insancerre · 02/05/2016 09:41

Its not sick leave they are questioning its your attendance
We have the policy that all episodes of absence are recorded and a return to work interview is conducted each time
These are monitored as 4 episodes of any absence will trigger an automatic review of attendance
This is a formal procedure but it doesn't mean the employee is always penallised
You might just have to show an improvement in the coming months and show you have a plan to deal with children's illnesses that doesn't make your attendance record worse
If you were off on Tuesday, back in on Wednesday and Thursday but off again on Friday , then that is definitely 2 separate periods is absence and they were right to record it as such

WeAllHaveWings · 02/05/2016 09:42

sorry x-post

did you ask to take Friday as unpaid leave or holiday and was it approved?

BombadierFritz · 02/05/2016 09:42

Did they ask you to take it as annual or unpaid leave?

lifesalongsong · 02/05/2016 09:42

I'm not an expert but I don think that emergency leave is allowed by law. Ime different employers have different rules so I don think anyone can advise you properly without knowing the specific rules in your situation.

As someone has said 3 days off does seem a very small amount for a formal meeting

Are you in the public or private sector?

WeAllHaveWings · 02/05/2016 09:46

going by the site "You can’t have time off if you knew about a situation beforehand. " so Tuesday you should have asked for time off/unpaid leave too.

Thankfully our company is a bit more flexible than that and we are usually allowed to WFH in these circumstances, what is the policy in your company?

Original poster
Shamalamalam · 02/05/2016 09:47

Sorry, crossed loads of posts.

I get paid when I'm sick, but the time off for dependents is unpaid

When I called in, I spoke to my boss and told him it was DD. I'd spoken to him during the week anyway so he knew I'd probably be off

I'm only assuming it's been recorded as sick, as the letter talks about the 3 incidents of sickness, but I'll find out more tomorrow.

The whole 'incidents' thing seems madness to me. I could have 6 months off sick over 2 incidents and nothing happen. 3 days and I have to explain myself - especially as to my mind the time off with DD is one illness.

It doesn't really encourage me to make an effort to go back in where possible - I could have had the whole week with her and nothing would have happened

OP posts:
AnchorDownDeepBreath · 02/05/2016 09:50

Yes but you'd need to then ask for parental leave or unpaid leave, and neither of those have to be offered - emergency leave is the one your employer has to let you take, I believe, but it's not for giving care (it's for making other arrangements) and you wouldn't quality on Tuesday or Friday. So then you'd need to know your works policies on parental or unpaid leave, and to have requested one or both of those.

I note that the government website doesn't say emergency leave can't be used in absence meetings, either, just that it shouldn't be used to unfairly make people redundant or stop them getting promotions.

dementedpixie · 02/05/2016 09:50

Did you arrange the time off in advance I.e. Did you speak to your employer on the Monday to see about the time off on Tuesday and Friday? If not, then you should have to see whether you could take unpaid leave or annual leave. I wouldn't think it would count as emergency leave as you knew on the Monday she was ill.

ChoudeBruxelles · 02/05/2016 09:51

You weren't sick. Where I work it's classed as emergency leave if you get a call from school or something like that

Original poster
Shamalamalam · 02/05/2016 09:53

Sorry, crossed loads of posts again

It's private sector.

I spoke to my boss on the Monday and explained and rang in and spoke to him Tuesday morning, then again on the Thursday I spoke to him during the day, rang in on the Friday morning.

They didn't ask whether I wanted annual leave or unpaid leave - I assumed it would just be recorded as unpaid/parental leave as we don't get paid for it. Our holiday year runs from May so I didn't have any annual leave left

OP posts:
caroldecker · 02/05/2016 09:53

There is a formula many companies use to identify when to have a meeting, and it will see 3 single days as more of an issue than one 3 day period.
It is rarely about discipline and more about early identification of issues that work has a duty of care for (stress, hidden disability/new medical condition, alcohol misuse etc) which enables them to potentially adapt the job to help.
For example, they would much rather tackle workplace stress early and deal with it then when it is too much and someone need several weeks/months off.

LobsterQuadrille · 02/05/2016 09:54

Hi OP, apologies but have only read the first page so this may be a cross post. I've been in companies where we have used the Bradford Factor to calculate staff's attendance - it's basically something that works out the number of times you have been off as opposed to the number of days - so a week's illness would be one occasion but five separate days over the year would be five occasions. It's not wildly popular and it's local government that tend to use it - then send reports to the head of departments with the names they need to follow up - so this may just be a formality.

As far as I'm aware, time off for dependants is treating differently from time of for your own sickness. Employers do not have a legal obligation to pay anything but can choose to do so and stipulate this in employment contracts.

Hope your meeting goes OK - sounds as if they have lumped emergency leave into the Bradford Factor which doesn't seem fair. I'm a head of department as opposed to HR so my knowledge isn't excessive.

Original poster
Shamalamalam · 02/05/2016 09:58

Bradford!!!! I couldn't remember for the life of me what it was called! Yes, we do use it.

I would have though they would have recorded them separately.

1 incident of sickness for me
2 incidents of leave for sick kids

Rather than all lumped together iykwim

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 02/05/2016 09:59

I suppose the lesson here would be to ascertain in advance how they are recording the absence and to make sure they are not recording it incorrectly. Maybe that's what the meeting will be about too

lougle · 02/05/2016 10:02

I agree with others. It wasn't an emergency on either of the days you took off with your DD - you knew she was going to be ill. The provisions for emergency leave are so that you can make arrangements for care. That may have been by negotiating AL/unpaid leave with your boss on the Monday, but to phone up on Tuesday and Friday, announcing that you won't be in is not how it works.

insancerre · 02/05/2016 10:02

Yes but its still 3 periods of absence whether its you or your dd that was ill
That's the whole point of the meeting, its about your absence management

Original poster
Shamalamalam · 02/05/2016 10:02

Yes, definitely.

I've never had to take time off before - the kids haven't had time off sick very often and DH usually does it as he can work from home whereas I can't

I spoke directly to my boss, so assumed it had been dealt with appropriately. I won't be assuming anything in future.

OP posts:
LobsterQuadrille · 02/05/2016 10:03

Yes, it should be recorded separately. Depending on the size of your company, it could easily be down to lack of communication in your HR department. Hopefully you will be able to explain that the emergency leave was not down to you being sick and that there are no issues. I had several instances where I knew full well why staff had been off - e.g. they'd come back to work too early and had to take another day or two off (another "occasion" recorded per Bradford Factor although the same illness) and, due to tick box bureaucratic reasons that local government love and spend masses of time and money on, still had to have a meeting with these staff members and record the reasons and results etc. Seriously I wouldn't worry.

Jcee · 02/05/2016 10:08

As others have said it sounds like a meeting to discuss attendance rather than sick leave. I'm public sector and we have a similar policy at my workplace - 3 separate occasions of sickness leave in 12 months or 10 consecutive days would trigger such a meeting. Sickness leave would be recorded separately to any unpaid leave or other types of leave.

I have held meetings like this with staff and sometimes it's a case of recording that X has had 3 instances of unrelated sickness and other times it's been an opportunity to talk to someone about what's going on, remind them about policy and if there's a way to better support their circumstances or how to deal with this in future.

As a manager of a large team it's useful to monitor this sort of stuff and get something on record even if it is that X has been unlucky in catching a number of bugs and needs occasional unpaid leave to deal with a childcare emergency. As others have said it sounds like a formality but it might be worth you agreeing an approach to emergency leave in future so you and manager and HR are clear on reason for short notice leave and recording it correctly.

LunaLoveg00d · 02/05/2016 10:10

Unpaid parental leave is something different to this though - you have to take it in blocks of a week and given them notice in writing 21 days in advance. It's not designed to be used to care for a sick child.

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover · 02/05/2016 10:13

I work in HR and it will be an absence/attendance management meeting. They can and will use all leave other than authorised holiday in this meeting.

It's about managing the time you are not in work, you won't necessarily be disciplined for it, just an initial discussion around how they can support you being in work more.

Employers do not need to offer annual leave in these circumstances as this can mask attendance problems- not saying that you have issues personally but that employers are not obligated to offer this.

hownottofuckup · 02/05/2016 10:14

I had to take leave once when my DC and childcare where both sick, the supervisor put it down as emergency unpaid leave. But when I spoke to HR they said it was wrong and changed it to annual leave as I had enough to cover it and that is what they'd expect in those circs.
My supervisor was pissed off though as she's declined me AL as she wanted me to cover a different dept that was short.

TheoriginalLEM · 02/05/2016 10:16

when a child is sick the care should be provided by a parent surely?

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover · 02/05/2016 10:23

The original I agree of course it should but in the same instance employers have to run a business so if people are constantly taking time off for dependants then this can cause issues.

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