to think my work sickness record shouldn't include time off to care for sick children?

[Shamalamalam]

I've had 3 incidents of sickness in a year so have to have a meeting tomorrow.

I've actually only had 3 days and only 1 of them was me, but they're considered to be separate incidents so I have to go and explain myself.

I've had 1 day with a d&v bug.

The week before last DD2 had a horrible bug - DH normally covers when the kids are off school sick as he can work from home, but he had a couple of things he couldn't miss so we shared it between us.

She was sent home early Monday - DH picked her up. I was at home with her Tuesday, DH did Wednesday and Thursday, I was off again with her on Friday. Because I went back in on the Weds and Thurs, they consider it to be 2 separate incidents even though it was the same illness

I get paid sick pay, but I don't get paid when off with the children.

I thought that type of emergency leave when dealing with sick children was different to my own sick leave but they've lumped it all together.

So, aibu to think it's been recorded incorrectly and that my sickness record shouldn't include unpaid leave to care for sick kids

Thanks!

[lifesalongsong]

Good news, glad it's resolved

[Marynary]

Because the employer has to cope with unplanned lack of resource. Very few companies operate with any slack these days; unplanned absence is a huge headache. It's also unfair to the other employees who have to take on the workload.

Yes but if it is unpaid it should count as parental leave rather than "sick leave" and it shouldn't be counted when considering sick leave absence.

[Shamalamalam]

Sorry, I meant to update this earlier

It was fine, once they'd realised they'd coded my absences for DD incorrectly.

I shouldn't have been called for a meeting at all as the absences are treated differently so all sorted

[Caravanoflove]

How did you get on OP?

[OllyBJolly]

I don't see why time off to look after sick children should be added on considering that you weren't paid for it

Because the employer has to cope with unplanned lack of resource. Very few companies operate with any slack these days; unplanned absence is a huge headache. It's also unfair to the other employees who have to take on the workload.

I do think employers should be flexible, but employees have to be flexible too. Not having backup childcare isn't an employer problem, it's for the working parents to resolve.

[Marynary]

It seems really unfair that you need to explain yourself when you have had only one day of sickness in three years. I don't see why time off to look after sick children should be added on considering that you weren't paid for it. I also don't see why the number of absences would count for parental leave rather than the total number of days.
I wouldn't want to work for a company like this and I'm not surprised that you want to move on.

[StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes]

in my workplace 3 incidents of sickness puts you on an alert, it is not meant to be punitive, it is meant to flag you up so manager can monitor any subsequent illnesses / sick days. Its mainly to see if there is a pattern to it so for example if its every other monday after a few too many over the weekend they might conclude you have an issue with alcohol and offer support for that or it its a recurring illness then maybe there are things they can do at work to help, if its a back problem for example they could do an assessment, refer you to occupational health, get you a new chair etc etc. Most people however do think they are in trouble when put on watch.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

I expect your problem will be that whatever they've recorded it as - unpaid leave or parental leave or whatever - is not exempt from absence management, so it's affecting your record.

[LunaLoveg00d]

when a child is sick the care should be provided by a parent surely

Maybe, but it's a balance between caring for a child and your obligations to your employer. Some kids are ill all the time - one tummy bug after the other, colds, coughs, chicken pox etc etc etc.

The emergency leave gives you a day off to sort out alternative arrangements such as a neighbour, auntie, granny etc.

[Shamalamalam]

Thanks all!

I'm only assuming they've lumped it all in on my sick record as the letter is talking about sick leave, not general absence, so I'll see what they say tomorrow.

when a child is sick the care should be provided by a parent surely?

Well, yes, I agree. We don't have anyone else to care for them if they're sick anyway. I had spoken to my boss about it during the week and he was fine about it

As I say, it's usually DH and they've not had a lot of time off anyway so this is the first time I've had to take time off to care for them.

They work it out over a rolling year, so it's 3 days in a year (well, actually 3 days in the whole 3 years I've been there) not 3 days this year. My sick day was June last year, then 2 days the week before last

It does really piss me off that I don't get paid for overtime, but I do get docked for this kind of leave then have to go and explain myself, but that's by the by.

[wannabehippyandcrazycatlover]

The original I agree of course it should but in the same instance employers have to run a business so if people are constantly taking time off for dependants then this can cause issues.

[TheoriginalLEM]

when a child is sick the care should be provided by a parent surely?

[hownottofuckup]

I had to take leave once when my DC and childcare where both sick, the supervisor put it down as emergency unpaid leave. But when I spoke to HR they said it was wrong and changed it to annual leave as I had enough to cover it and that is what they'd expect in those circs.
My supervisor was pissed off though as she's declined me AL as she wanted me to cover a different dept that was short.

[wannabehippyandcrazycatlover]

I work in HR and it will be an absence/attendance management meeting. They can and will use all leave other than authorised holiday in this meeting.

It's about managing the time you are not in work, you won't necessarily be disciplined for it, just an initial discussion around how they can support you being in work more.

Employers do not need to offer annual leave in these circumstances as this can mask attendance problems- not saying that you have issues personally but that employers are not obligated to offer this.

[LunaLoveg00d]

Unpaid parental leave is something different to this though - you have to take it in blocks of a week and given them notice in writing 21 days in advance. It's not designed to be used to care for a sick child.

[Jcee]

As others have said it sounds like a meeting to discuss attendance rather than sick leave. I'm public sector and we have a similar policy at my workplace - 3 separate occasions of sickness leave in 12 months or 10 consecutive days would trigger such a meeting. Sickness leave would be recorded separately to any unpaid leave or other types of leave.

I have held meetings like this with staff and sometimes it's a case of recording that X has had 3 instances of unrelated sickness and other times it's been an opportunity to talk to someone about what's going on, remind them about policy and if there's a way to better support their circumstances or how to deal with this in future.

As a manager of a large team it's useful to monitor this sort of stuff and get something on record even if it is that X has been unlucky in catching a number of bugs and needs occasional unpaid leave to deal with a childcare emergency. As others have said it sounds like a formality but it might be worth you agreeing an approach to emergency leave in future so you and manager and HR are clear on reason for short notice leave and recording it correctly.

[LobsterQuadrille]

Yes, it should be recorded separately. Depending on the size of your company, it could easily be down to lack of communication in your HR department. Hopefully you will be able to explain that the emergency leave was not down to you being sick and that there are no issues. I had several instances where I knew full well why staff had been off - e.g. they'd come back to work too early and had to take another day or two off (another "occasion" recorded per Bradford Factor although the same illness) and, due to tick box bureaucratic reasons that local government love and spend masses of time and money on, still had to have a meeting with these staff members and record the reasons and results etc. Seriously I wouldn't worry.

[Shamalamalam]

Yes, definitely.

I've never had to take time off before - the kids haven't had time off sick very often and DH usually does it as he can work from home whereas I can't

I spoke directly to my boss, so assumed it had been dealt with appropriately. I won't be assuming anything in future.

[insancerre]

Yes but its still 3 periods of absence whether its you or your dd that was ill
That's the whole point of the meeting, its about your absence management

[lougle]

I agree with others. It wasn't an emergency on either of the days you took off with your DD - you knew she was going to be ill. The provisions for emergency leave are so that you can make arrangements for care. That may have been by negotiating AL/unpaid leave with your boss on the Monday, but to phone up on Tuesday and Friday, announcing that you won't be in is not how it works.

[dementedpixie]

I suppose the lesson here would be to ascertain in advance how they are recording the absence and to make sure they are not recording it incorrectly. Maybe that's what the meeting will be about too

[Shamalamalam]

Bradford!!!! I couldn't remember for the life of me what it was called! Yes, we do use it.

I would have though they would have recorded them separately.

1 incident of sickness for me
2 incidents of leave for sick kids

Rather than all lumped together iykwim

[LobsterQuadrille]

Hi OP, apologies but have only read the first page so this may be a cross post. I've been in companies where we have used the Bradford Factor to calculate staff's attendance - it's basically something that works out the number of times you have been off as opposed to the number of days - so a week's illness would be one occasion but five separate days over the year would be five occasions. It's not wildly popular and it's local government that tend to use it - then send reports to the head of departments with the names they need to follow up - so this may just be a formality.

As far as I'm aware, time off for dependants is treating differently from time of for your own sickness. Employers do not have a legal obligation to pay anything but can choose to do so and stipulate this in employment contracts.

Hope your meeting goes OK - sounds as if they have lumped emergency leave into the Bradford Factor which doesn't seem fair. I'm a head of department as opposed to HR so my knowledge isn't excessive.

[caroldecker]

There is a formula many companies use to identify when to have a meeting, and it will see 3 single days as more of an issue than one 3 day period.
It is rarely about discipline and more about early identification of issues that work has a duty of care for (stress, hidden disability/new medical condition, alcohol misuse etc) which enables them to potentially adapt the job to help.
For example, they would much rather tackle workplace stress early and deal with it then when it is too much and someone need several weeks/months off.

[Shamalamalam]

Sorry, crossed loads of posts again

It's private sector.

I spoke to my boss on the Monday and explained and rang in and spoke to him Tuesday morning, then again on the Thursday I spoke to him during the day, rang in on the Friday morning.

They didn't ask whether I wanted annual leave or unpaid leave - I assumed it would just be recorded as unpaid/parental leave as we don't get paid for it. Our holiday year runs from May so I didn't have any annual leave left