to be annoyed at school teachers?

[smd5018]

I'll try to keep a long story short...my daughter(13) has come home on a few occasions over the past couple of weeks telling me that her new English supply teacher hates her. The teacher has mis-spelled a word on the whiteboard and my daughter corrected her (which I can understand would be miffing and embarrassing.) A couple of times when another child has asked for help with spelling the teacher has said something like "Oh why don't you ask her, since she's a walking dictionary" and called her to the front to write on the whiteboard. She now comes home and tells me all the words the techer has misspelled but doesn't mention it to the teacher, she is, however convinced that the teacher hates her. On Thursday the class was asked by the form teacher to write about how she feels about some of her lessons/subjects and was encouraged to include her thoughts on English. She said she wasn't enjoying it because the teacher didn't like her because she's corrected her on her spelling. Today she has been pulled to one side by the form teacher and called arrogant and told to worry about her own education, not the teacher's spelling. She's now saying she wants to miss school and doesn't want to go to her English classes, which she used to enjoy. The supply teacher is covering for maternity leave so will be around for a while. I'm not happy with either teacher, aibu, and is my child an arrogant little shit? Or is it fair enough to question a teacher?

I'd actually be more worried, no, angry , about the form teacher's reaction.

She is asked to write down how she feels about subjects and encouraged to put down her thoughts about English. She writes about her fears that the teacher hates her - and then gets told off for her honesty What was the point of the exercise ?

I'd be taking this up formally with the form teacher - not at an event but requesting a meeting. I'd be concerned that the form teacher has breached confidentiality and seeking reassurance that he is actually listening to your dd's concerns - given that he asked her to write them down in the first place.

Did anyone else in the class get berated by the form teacher? Do you get the sense that she was particularly pushed to include English because the form teacher wanted to find out what she "really thought" ?

prettybird

I'd be concerned that the form teacher has breached confidentiality

Sometime's, not often, I'm lost for words...

Official secrets act, probably.

I agree the form tutor has not reacted helpfully, but how has he breached confidentiality ( which teachers aren't meant to offer pupils anyway)?

I've got no issues with teachers talking to each other about pupils - but on the occasion when a child has been specifically asked about feelings and even more so, when they are asked to open up about a specific subject, then yes, I do have concerns.

I've always been extremely supportive of schools, worked closely with the teachers, got involved with the Parent Council, taken up issues (when - rarely - I've had them) first with the teacher concerned before going through the Head of Year, but on this occasion it smacks of the form teacher breaching boundaries.

Therefore my annoyance would be directed at the form teacher for telling a child she was arrogant for saying what she felt. In other parts of MN it would be called victim blaming.

The OP had said that her dd wasn't correcting the teacher any more (despite the snide comments) but understandably was letting her mum know. If a Maths teacher was putting up "wrong" equations, would you want your child to let you know? Why is English different?

pretty

Those concerns have nothing to do with breaching confidentiality unless they were told it was anonymous and the teacher contacted her after recognising the handwriting. I'd bet the contents of my purse (don't want to boast, but well over a fiver) that the OP's daughter isn't quite being the picked-upon angle she's being made out to be here. I think more so because the English teacher is being backed by the form teacher and it's not just an inexperienced sub. acting poorly.

If a Maths teacher was putting up "wrong" equations, would you want your child to let you know? Why is English different?

becuse yuo stil understend evrything Im tryin to rite and wuld do understend the explanashun of post modified vurbal phrases.

However, x =z takes on a very different meaning should letters or symbols be misused.

You're still missing the point that corrections can be done appropriately or inappropriately. Once or twice, when pertinent, is a good thing. Frequently and for the sake of showing off needs to be nipped in the bud.

Two scenarios in the staff room:

Scenario 1

Form teacher: "Have you seen the awful things that Miss smd has written about you?"

Supply English teacher: "I'm not surprised, she's a wee arrogant shit who is always trying to correct me in front of the class and embarrassing me"

Form teacher: "I'll tell her to wind her neck in and stop being so arrogant"

Scenario 2

Form teacher: "Miss smd seems to be having some problems with English and is worried that you don't like her because of an incident to do with spelling"

Supply English teacher: "Thank you for raising it with me. I might have over-reacted in the first place. I'll reassure her"

I wonder which is closer to what happened?

You seem to be reading a different OP to me: the dd correcting her once and then the teacher escalating it by referring other kids to her for spelling on the basis that she is a "walking dictionary". And the dd not mentioning misspellings in class but telling her mum at home instead.

scenario 3:

Form teacher: "Have you seen the awful things...?"

Sub. Teacher: "I'm not surprised. She's an arrogant we shit... I've tried pulling her aside and explaining it's inappropriate. I've tried ignoring her but she became more disruptive. I resorted to extremely gentle teasing but she still didn't get the message. I've heard she's perfectly pleasant in other subjects so wonder why she's such a pain in the arse with me. Could you have a word as I don't seem to be getting anywhere? I feel like another teacher explaining how her behaviour is unacceptable may work."

I think we're reading the same post (and cross posting all the time!) but I bet that there's more to it than the OP has been told whereas you think it's a breach of confidentiality and the sign of terrible teachers.

I suspect that her daughter is being an "arrogant wee shit" (as you suggested) and doesn't like the way she's been dealt with because the form teacher and sub. have both had cause to pull her up on her attitude or behaviour.

Speaking as a teacher (though now of adults) if scenario 3 was happening on my watch, I would be wondering exactly why this girl was a wee shit in my class and not with anybody else.

But then I have just spent the last few hours comparing my student evaluation ratings with those of my colleagues: if mine were significantly lower I would want to know why (and so would my line manager).

Speaking as a parent, my first assumption would probably be that my dc had raised the issue in a wrong way and that my job was to address that.

Somewhere in the overlap between those roles I would probably try to gently probe the school as to what is going on.

But the comment about worrying about her own education and not the teacher's spelling is ludicrous: how is her education not affected if the teacher is teaching her the wrong thing???

....which is why the first port of call is the Form Teacher, with a formal meeting.

If the dd had previously enjoyed English, then maybe the solution is changing English teachers. If the subject is "set" although the OP doesn't mention if it is, then there will be other English classes timetabled at the same time.

corythatwas

"I would be wondering exactly why this girl was a wee shit in my class and not with anybody else."

Would you be wondering the same if it was only your class that the child behaved in?

My subject is one where those with low ATL in some/most academic subjects get a higher ATL, and the opposite is also true. Sometimes its the subject and the attitude of the pupil that makes the difference, not the teacher.

The teacher humiliated and upset the girl who was correct? How is this rewarding learning?

Replace 'humiliated' with 'touched'. Why wouldn't her mum believe her? And if the girl's not believed when humiliated why would she speak out again if something else happens in her life?

I'd request a fomal meeting. If it transpires the girl is at fault at least she would know her mum is prepared to support her. If you don't feel strong enough can you take a stronger friend or family member with you?

Well, Boney, as an academic teacher, that is part of my job: at the end of each semester I have to write a module evaluation which involves explanations of my grades and student comments. If I honed in on the unjustness of the students instead of focusing on what I could do better or what has worked for me, my managers would take a very dim view of that and it would certainly affect my chances of ever going for promotion. Obviously, I would never write "I got better grades than colleague Z because I am a better teacher": if that did happen, I would not draw attention to the colleagues, but write something like "the changes x, y and z which were introduced last year seem to have been successful; I will look at further developing them".

But note that I did say that as a "parent" I would be very anxious to ascertain in how far my child was at fault and what I could do to improve that part of it. Because as a parent that is my job. That has always been my attitude when my own dc have come home and complained about a teacher. I have never jumped in and asserted that Mrs X must be wrong and you shouldn't pay attention to her; I have always talked to them about what they could do better, and if there then seems to be an unsurmountable problem how we can talk to the school to solve it.

As I see it, I have two jobs and both call for professionalism.

Sorry, don't know why I put "parent" in quotation marks, meant to bold it.

Humiliated is subjective and touched is not.
I'd have been humiliated if I'd farted in class, others laugh it off and do it again
Not the same type of thing at all.

cory

My point isn't about who is the "better" teacher, my point is that pupils attitudes can change from subject to subject or even teacher to teacher.

In this case one of the major points is that the teacher that "hates" the OP's DD is a supply teacher. I suspect that that is one of the reasons for the DD's probable behaviour change in the class.

But as you have pointed out, it is up to the parent to find out what the issue really is.

Rain spelling is not subjective but touching can be.

Yes, Boney, but it is not just a question of "Mrs X hates me" but a claim that Mrs X has behaved in a very unprofessional manner in a very specific instance- those comments used about the child in a later situation would seem unprofessional. If that turned out to be correct (and as a parent I would feel the need to check my facts first), I don't think it can be entirely explained off by the fact that the children treat her badly because she is a supply teacher. She is still required to respond as an adult, not as a child.

note: I have been a supply teacher; I know how bad it can be. I know they often play up and I know what it is like to stand in front of a class knowing that they are deliberately testing me. But that would not excuse me if I made snide remarks about a certain child at a later date.

To the previous poster, yes I totally think showing is an important part of being an english teacher. This www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/239784/English_Appendix_1_-_Spelling.pdf is what is expected of primary school children - look at the year 5/6 list. So if they are expected to spell these correctly aged 10, then surely the English secondary school teacher should be something correctly.

spelling correctly!
OP, I don't think you can go back and edit posts

Cory

As you said, this is why it is important for the OP to find out what actually happened and what is happening (with regard to both teacher and form tutor).

I suspect that the supply teacher is trying to establish authority with the class & has reacted over-defensively - they don't know their class. Happens a lot. Subsequent comments have been to quell the rabble. Not fair on your DD who had probably commentef in all innocence - it's natural to want to identify an error - they're their to learn after all. Because the supply teacher is having a hard time the form tutor has reacted 'supportively'to a colleague, but not at all to your DD.

But I would still tread wearily as bright/clever kids, even lovely ones, can be arrogant. They just need handling correctly/putting in their place in a way that doesn't harm relationships and this hasn't happened. Make precise notes from your DD and contact the Head of Year who probably has oversight of the form tutors and who will liaise with the Head of English.