To think Philip green should be vilified

[GetInFormationLadies]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36137574

For taking out so much in dividends and creating a huge pension black hole?

Does this mean that people with pensions might loose out while he runs away making millions?

These are the people we're ruled by, folks.

I doubt the company ever made enough to pay the dividends it did to his wife, in her tax haven.

More front than Blackpool.

I hope he is hung out to dry.

He's been summoned to appear before a parliamentary committee. No doubt he'll walk away unscathed but amusing that even the government appears to be slightly embarrassed by him.

You may have to scroll down to get to it: www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/apr/26/bhs-bosses-blasted-over-administration-bp-profits-slump-business-live?page=with:block-571f7721e4b0c06db41970ef#block-571f7721e4b0c06db41970ef

Don't get me wrong, I hate the tax arrangement, but the dividend did not create the pension deficit. Lending banks financed the dividend with a large loan which BHS has been unable to repay so losses borne by the banks there and paid for as part of the bail out.

How far the regulator goes is a tough one though because it goes right to the heart of what limited liability means which would have huge impact on innovation etc.

grins I think we understand quite well.

He took dividends on a business not making profit because he speculated with the pension funds to cover up the losses.

It took a few years to become apparent by which time he had sold it, walked off with over £500 million of 'profit', and left an identical 'hole' in the pensions funds for coincidentally the same amount.

You cannot raid a pension fund when it is in 'surplus' unless you are also prepared to top it up when it is in deficit, they fluctuate.

I don't think the pensions watchdog or government will help, we have really poor money laundering regulations and if even the Prime Minister sees no shame in 'minimising his tax burden', what incentive is there for wealthy people to pay their fair share when it is so easy and profitable not to?

But dividends should be based on profit. Wasn't his wife paid 1.6b?

As the current system stands, there is none.

Coffee, I'm afraid that is wrong, it is clear you don't understand at all.

The business was making a profit when the dividends were paid. He didn't "speculate with the pension funds to cover up the losses". Contributions to the fund from BHS were agreed with the trustees and paid.

There was no transfer of funds from the pension fund to the company (at least there is no evidence of it, it would be illegal and the administrators and Pensions regulator are not suggesting he has.

The reason the deficit has grown is the same as for many funds: poor equity returns, increaing life expectancy and low gilt yields which are used when valuing a fund on a buyout basis.

coffee understands more than grins.

If we leave Europe, these are he people we'll be at the mercy of.

Hissy, these people are all over Europe. Green wants us to stay! His personal gain is obvious.

I posted this on the other thread yesterday. It certainly seems to suggest that dividends were exceeding profits, particularly this bit:
*For many years, BHS formed part of a holding company called Taveta Investments Limited. In 2005, Taveta Investments paid a dividend of £1.3bn, although the group’s annual profit was only £253m'

I may not understand much but I know that 1.3 bn is a fuck of a lot more than £253m. And that this appears to have been going on under Green's watch.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/25/bhs-shareholder-greed-high-street-retailer-divident

Grins - the thing is I disagree with a company being run for the interests of shareholders at the expense of other interest groups - such as employees. Particularly if pension pots are left do bare that government (ie taxpayers ) may need to stump up the difference. May not be illegal but wow

I know someone who worked on his yacht. Vile fucking man. I hope he's strung up by the balls.

Guess who gets to pick up the bill for the BHS pensions deficit - Yes you and me the taxpayer

Yeah but then taxes are for little people, doncha know.

Odious man, I wish he was stripped of his knighthood and sent into exile. Unfortunately that won't happen. He's so rich he can buy the best lawyers, and grease the palms of the right people.

It's not just the lawyers, it's that he can afford to stash his money in a labyrinthine network of companies, so complex that whenever the little people do question it, he can turn round and tell us we don't understand.

I'm just speechless at the audacity of this man. I haven't bought from any of his brands since the tax debacle came to light- it won't do any good but I can't give money to a man who is essentially laughing in our faces.

Hissy, on the whole these people want to stay in the EU. Increasing globalisation of money systems is a boon for the super rich.

Is his yacht called the Lady Ghislaine?

No, I think it's called Cunty McCuntface.

BHS was always going to go under, the pension deficit would have been there even if these vulture capitalists hadn't taken over, just down to the business model they had.

Let's not turn this into a partisan argument though, this practice and 'venture capitalism' far out dates the recent Tory or coalition government. The Tories to their credit have attempted to tackle the issue, globalisation and Europe play a significant role in this.

Grins speaks much sense. Those surpluses and deficits in the pension scheme at different dates are likely calculated on different bases (I haven't seen an article with sufficient detail, not that I've looked particularly hard). It would be possible for a scheme to be £5m in surplus and £570m in deficit on the same day using different assumptions - neither would necessarily be wrong (or right), just taking different views.

Not that Green isn't vile, of course.