to want to know what parents can do about the teaching crisis?!

[BrightRedSharpie]

I'm in Scotland, btw, but I know there is a similar problem in England.

My DD's school is really understaffed. The P1 teachers have both been off all week, which has caused absolute havoc. They have had different teachers for mornings and afternoons because there are also no supply teachers available. P7 had to be split up for a teacher to come and take the little ones.

2 classroom assistants are also off on maternity leave, which either isn't or can't be covered. That's left 3 classroom assistants for around 300 children.

I know the school are doing their best. I've written to my MP and MSP. Is there anything else a concerned parent can actually do?

Capsium, Other than a slightly angry response to allowls fatuous post, I have not belittled parents, merely pointed out that they are parents, not teachers. I am not moaning or berating. From a position of knowledge and experience, I answered the OP's question honestly. I identified undesirable behaviours and suggested ways a parent might change those behaviours to support teachers and maybe reduce the rate of attrition. Now, I don't wish to be rude, but I won't be responding to any more of your posts on the thread.

Cory, in all honesty, I don't know the answer to your question as I've never encountered that level of incompetence in my experiences as a parent or a teacher. As with any job, there are people teaching who may not be suited to the job. My experience is that they don't last long.

I don't know which bits you find unacceptable.

This saddens me. Ironic that the teachers on this thread are seeking empathy from parents.

I was trying to get you stop generalising and start being specific.

I haven't seen any pleas for empathy, just to realise what teacher's job is, and to do their job as parents. It's not about feelings, it's doing the work.

Cory. You sound like my dh. We call him "Mr Pedantic". He has been known to tell all and sundry how he spotted a spelling error on the television. He reads the newspaper to find the spelling errors not the news!

Thought that may amuse you!!

This teacher had been there for years, IThink, was well into middle-age, had had a whole career. She was not a bad teacher, I had no quibbles with her pedagogical skills: it was just that what she taught was not correct, because she did not have sufficient mastery of the language.

As for the dodgy spelling tests in ds' primary, what seemed to happen was that one staff member (I think fairly young and inexperienced) put together the spelling tests for the whole school. They picked up eventually so maybe somebody did complain. But it wasn't me.

" they are parents, not teachers"

except for the ones that are both

Anyway, what several posters have found irritating on this thread is that the OP posted in support of the school, she specifically said they were doing their best, she was appreciative of them and wanted to know if she could help in a pressured situation. And the response was a rant about how horrible parents are. It did seem rather unfair.

Ithink you have stated you regard yourself as the 'expert' in relation to a child's education, as their teacher, assuming a hierarchical position where a teacher is considered above the parent in terms of education. This is regardless of the parent's qualifications and their unique expertise and knowledge regarding their child. By taking this position teachers are missing out because it is impossible to have a good professional relationship in the presence of this kind of arrogance. A teacher might be able to learn something from parents if they were willing to actually listen to them.

There has been no rant about horrible parents are, cory; at all times specific evidence of what should be done/isn't being done has been given.

I have taught in Canada and the UK.

In Canada, a child has the primary responsibilty over their high school education. The onus is on them to catch up should they be absent, and the onus is on them to turn up in the first place. If a child fails, it's their fault. If a child is unsure, they approach teachers for clarification. If a child has extra barriers to learning, such as SEN or a shit home life, the school provides support but the child climbs those barriers themselves.

Here in England, I'm responsible for the lot. I am teacher and social worker and part time parent and health visitor. Indirectly, I'm also a form of police.

Many parents think they can tell us how to do their job. Parents have children and it is undoubtable few people know their children better than their own parents. The difference between three children at home with the same socioeconomic/cultural/whatever background is vast compared to 32 completely different ones. In the same way that you don't tell a dentist how to remove your child's teeth, there is a similar lack of justification for telling teachers how to teach their subject.

Good Lord, capsium, it's all we do, all day long. 'My mum says to phone her'. Ok, after a full day, no frees, lunch duty, the trip I'm organising for Year 8 (endless but essential medical forms/swimming consent/3 days of 1st aid/collecting passports/phoning the company/writing the risk assessment), revision session after school, no office so I have to go find a phone that someone isn't using, sure, of course, my aim is to please. I listen to parents for as long as they want to talk, I support, I help, I feel like a goddamn social worker some days.

It's ok, I actually like to help and learn new ways to deliver a lesson. We are the experts in respect of teaching, we do know more than the average parent about how to deliver the knowledge we have. It's a never ending journey, throughout which we can't ever say we know it all. We learn, constantly.

However, I would not dream of telling someone who is qualified to enforce the law/sell houses/pilot a plane how to do their job, yet all too frequently, I hear of parents trying to tell teachers how to teach.

As a matter of fact, I did point out to my dentist that the side of my mouth she was preparing to x-ray wasn't the one containing the tooth my appointment was about. Dentists are not immune. I know she is a trained dentist, but I also know which side of my mouth contains my left molar.

(Same dentist later ended up under investigation and we were all sent letters asking whether we had any complaints about treatment)

Here, crazy teachers also will question and advise parents on their parenting. Schools set homework that demands a huge input from parents. Schools provide workshops so the parents can actually teach support their child at home. The involvement of parents actually forms part of our educational policy. Forgive us, if as parents, we feel our viewpoints should be heard. We are supposed to be 'in partnership' after all...

corythatwas When I see the doctor or vet, I do my research and I go in with my ideas. No-one is infallible, no-one knows everything, athough checking which side the tooth is-bit of a basic! . Generally, tho, I let people get on with their job, they tend to know a devil of a lot more than me about it!

I do realise that teaching is made more difficult than it need be by the attitude of a few entitled and demanding parents. But I think it would help to try to get the other parents on your side, to try to accept that every parent who has a concern is not one of those parents, and that there are no doubt scores of parents who do not complain. Don't make them all feel that you see them as the enemy.

And incidentally, teaching is not the only profession where your job depends on the scrutiny of the non-professionals. As an academic teacher (have done other teaching, too), my career progression depends to a great extent on the grades given me by the students themselves at the end of each semester. They fill in their evaluation questionnaires during the last week or two, when they are beginning to worry about the exam and are not always in a very positive frame of mind. I do learn important things from the questionnaires, and I always take them very seriously, but it cannot be denied that some responses do appear very unreasonable. But our jobs depend on them, no point in fighting it, that's how it is.

Viewpoints sure, it is a tripartite relationship, but one in which teachers are the trained professionals. There is a nasty culture of mistrust in English education where some parents feel that teachers must bow to their every demand. This permeates many schools where SLT do not trust staff. I'm lucky to work in a school where we trust ours.

The grand majority of parents are lovely. Most of the ones I worked with at the height of the Gove reforms would express sympathy.

Teaching parents how to do homework once again deviates from the notion our children should be independent learners.

When I am PM, I'll be placing the control of education in the hands of a cross party Royal Commission, so ending ideologically driven reforms of all political colours.

The unions in the UK prevent student evaluation. Whilst I accept it's valid, it only takes one vindictive student with a grudge to cause real upset to a teacher's career.

In our primary there were a lot of clubs and extra activities run by parents. (And I mean a lot!!)

Parents also helped out with clubs and trips run by teachers. They volunteered in the classrooms and for swimming trips. They got to know the teachers, worked with them and liked them.

They were governors. Parents funded by donations a part time music teacher.

It isn't right that we should have to but it made a huge difference to the school. It turned it round. We supported the teachers in different ways with time, money, appreciation - it was a very happy school.

I'm an ex teacher who worked for over a decade across most key stages - the best thing a parent can do is jump the hurdles that are advised by the teacher - reading etc then in the upper years - getting them to do coursework on time. The best gift given by a parent is helping their child see a teacher as a person to respect and appreciate - so you can all work together to achieve the child's potential.
Whoever said teaching is a family friendly job - are you kidding??? It's the most unfriendly job for families ever - stress, constant pressure, working every evening, Saturday's now in school at many secondary's. You get the holidays but it's nothing compared with the stress you recieve. I loved my job - but it was really detrimental to my relationship and family life.

In secondary school, and in fact in all schools, stop the bloody obession with data.

How well a child does at 11 gives an indication of what they might be capable of at 16 no more, and you have to have a discount for how much help and practice they were given in primary to achieve that grade, if in fact it is accurate.

At 16 the child may be very different, due to all sorts of factors, and setting a target is fine, but the adherence to the idea that the child should achieve that target or it is the teacher's fault is ridiculous.

Also, projected grades each half term. I can give you an idea of how your child is going to do, but especially with GCSEs and A levels I can't really give you an idea until we have finished delivering the entire course and they have done a proper mock or even two. Yes Martha and Henry might have done well in their test which covered a specific set of topics covered in the first half term, they may have done well in the second term too, but I'm buggered if I know if they'll do as well in the whole thing at that stage. It makes no sense.

I'm a trained economist, we know that data is an indicator not an absolute, so stop treating it as such and holding teachers accountable for it. We can't sit the exam, we can only facilitate, a big part of it is down to an uncontrollable set of variables.

For example, a lot of kids taking my subject at A level take maths. A few years ago the AS maths exam was on the morning prior to the econ exam on the afternoon, guess what? Some (not all) students who took both performed worse than expected in the later exam. The exam on the morning was an infulence. A child last year took 3 exams on one day, the econ exam last, she got an E when she had been hitting C/B borderline all year. Not a controlable or predictable factor using data yet we still had to explain why the data for her had been "wrong" all year.

Kind of glad I'm no longer front line all the time. Moving away from full time and going back into doing some subject related research has been a boon.

My son has had teachers that do not have enough understanding of his disability to be able to be experts in teaching him. Some of them have seen it as a partnership with me and have asked for and used my expertise. Others have not wanted to do this which has led to my son being distressed and /or not learning.

I think the point I'd like some parents to empathise with is that to them their child is the most important and is prioritised in their lives, and I have no problem with that.
However, I have 30+ who are all equally important to me and who are equally deserving of my time and effort. So it's not always your child first, and given a finite amount of time and energy, I have to prioritise, and that's my professional decision.

I agree, haddock. Some of the most useful support I've had for my teaching has been from parents of children of additional needs who have been able to explain how they learn best and what their triggers are.
Sometimes things can't be accommodated as well as I'd like, but knowing what should be happening is the key.

Excellent post lurked

The targets set from age 11 data should not be something to beat the teacher with for age 16 students whom I only have partial control of for 3 hours of their week.

Perfectly expressed, Ithink.

Stop posting on social media about school before incidents have been investigated.
Overuse of Special Needs as excuse for poor behaviour.
Tolerance and support of school's discipline sanctions.
Also: rigorous teacher training, three years at least.

Well said..Ithink..ditto another primary teacher.