Aibu to ask for opinions about the MMR jab

[shatteredmama]

I'm by no means an anti vaxxer, dc has had all of the standard jabs so far, just turned 12 months old so it's time for the MMR, have an appointment booked for it next week, just can't stop feeling twitchy about it.

Would really love to hear opinions on it, or of any up to date reports on its effects, I've scoured the web but can't find anything other than the standard NHS type advice.

Autism? No link.

i'd be interesting in hear why there were 1600 families wanting to bring a case against MMR

Because it's typically given around the time that autism is first suspected, it's new, and in the 1990s autism was starting to be diagnosed as a distinct entity at that age" rather than just lumped into a vague "developmental problems" or similar bucket. It was also the first cohort of children to be born in the Internet age, when people with minority interests could find each other, and when people who didn't have the skills to read papers and see them for the junk they were could instead get easy access to inaccurate précis.

There's always been a fringe lobby against vaccination (which my private theory is actually needle-phobia, as about the only vaccine that has never had a campaign about it in the UK at least is Salk polio vaccine in the days when it was given on sugar lumps, although that's also because polio is a savagely unpleasant disease within living memory) and Wakefield was able to ride a perfect storm of circumstances.

GreaseIsNotTheWord - I think the first signs of autism can become apparent at about the same time as the MMR jab - so perhaps the parents put two and two together and made five?

My son is 6 months old and has had all of his vaccines. However. Are debating about doing any more which I know will not be a popular opinion on here. There is a lot of reasearch you can do particularly into the ingredients used. Personally we will either be delaying or doing selective vaccines that we feel comfortable with as they can't be undone. There are many groups on Facebook and other sites online that you can ask for information

There is a new documentary in the states called vaxxed which looks very interesting. Look up the trailer

There's also a popular believe the Measles, Mumps and Rubella aren't serious. Measles can kill, although rarely amongst healthy children, so the herd immunity is important. Mumps will sterilise a significant proportion of boys that have it. And a friend whose work is both research and practice in deaf-blind teaching rather mordantly points out that Wakefield single-handedly meant she didn't need to retrain, as she'll be retired before the deaf-blind children caused by Rubella in pregnancy (which was pretty much on course to be stamped out prior to the MMR scare) are out of the system.

Clairejessica123 vaxxed is directed by Andrew Wakefield, the guy who's dodgy research caused this furore in the first place. Are you really going to believe the message in that film?

DS1 (10) when he was small had a history of convulsions whenever he had a fever spike. Common enough, but he was hospitalised with them 3 times before his first birthday and as he approached one I spoke to the HV about him having such high temperatures after each vaccine. She suggested having them done separately, we read up on it and thought it sounded the better option for him, found a clinic in Birmingham and it was easy as pie.

DS2 is 5 and we chose the same for him as he had a tendency towards febrile convulsions, too. I appreciate that it might be seen as wasted money and they'd have been fine with the multiple vaccines, but we did what we thought was right at the time, and neither became at all unwell (not even a fever) after each vaccine.

I'd do it again, given a do-over. The Autism link is entirely moot, no question, and the hype around anti-vaccination makes me furious because it could (and does) put children at risk. Friends of ours had a little boy who caught whooping cough at 10 days old because he wasn't old enough for the vaccine yet, and five years on he's still tremendously unwell. I'd never not vaccinate. I just think it's ok to question and investigate how they work and why before doing them.

OP, all the above is correct. Have the MMR.

Some people say MN isn't as good as it used to be, however it used to be an anti-vax haven with loads of posters declaring Andrew Wakefield as a heroic battler against Big Pharma.

Glad to see those opinions are not so common now.

I was in two minds until I read Roald Dahl's thoughts on it. There is an excellent piece he wrote on the Encephalitis Society website about it which is worth a read. Can't link right now.

Also, I'm not in the UK and where I live you can't enter the education system or claim child support without it so that doesn't give you much say in the matter but if you are worried about side effects you can have them done separately. I didn't bother in the end and just had it done as normal because nobody I knew has had any problems.

I think the first signs of autism can become apparent at about the same time as the MMR jab

Hmm - yes. I'm aware of that. And i'm aware that the link has been 'disproved' by Very Important medical type companies and researchers over and over.

In reality though, I do wonder how it's possible to disprove such a theory. I mean...no one knows what 'causes' autism - how could anyone know or prove that the MMR isn't a factor, when autism develops shortly after it? I mean, yes, it may well have developed anyway - but you can't know that.

I also wonder what the catalyst was for the lawyer (was it...I think, i'm not searching again) who approached Wakefield to try and prove his theory. I mean, why? Why the MMR? Did he just pull that idea out of his arse or did he have convincing anecdotal evidence that there may be a link? 1600 potential claimants is a lot.

Anyway, i'm not an anti-vaxxer, both of mine have had the MMR because I felt the 'risk' (if any) was minimal compared to the benefits - but I've never been quite convinced that there's no risk, nor read anything absolutely conclusive on it.

Knowledge and understanding of autism has come on leaps and bounds in the last ten-fifteen years, thankfully, and it's now seen as neurological difference which has always been there.

clairejessica if your son is fully vaccinated up to now, why are you reluctant to continue his vaccination programme? (honestly I'm curious, especially as a practice nurse who does all these vaccines).

All of the vaccines due from 12/13 months onwards are boosters of those he's had already, except for MMR.

shatteredmama there is no link between MMR and autism. Single vaccines pose their own risks (imported vaccines, not necessarily with any recorded chain of production or cold storage maintenance, gaps between doses leaving the child unprotected) however in my professional opinion single measles vaccine is preferable to no vaccine at all.

I have vaccinated hundreds if not thousands of children and have yellow carded just a handful for minor side effects; I know that is anecdotal but hopefully reassuring for you.

autism is a neurodevelopmental disability and is in fact, present from birth.

how could anyone know or prove that the MMR isn't a factor,

Give a thousand children MMR, and a thousand saline solution. Is there is difference in the rate of autism?

Of course, in a world where "research" means "googling", a lot of people don't have the statistical background to understand the result of such trials. And when there's precious little evidence for there being a link, but a lot of evidence that the vaccine protects against unpleasant illnesses, there are serious ethical problems with doing this (no-one wants to repeat this). But meta-analysis of studies involving large cohorts with differential rates of vaccination are robust.

There's also no plausible mechanism for the claimed effect: we know that smoking causes cancer because both of statistical links and plausible mechanisms, and conversely we can be pretty sure that water doesn't cause cancer both because there is no link and no plausible mechanism.

how could anyone know or prove that the MMR isn't a factor, when autism develops shortly after it? I mean, yes, it may well have developed anyway - but you can't know that.

You look at two different groups, one which had the MMR, and one which didn't. Then you examine the incidence of autism in each group and compare. If the MMR causes autism then there would be pretty obvious differences between the two groups.

Japan stopped using the MMR, and yet the rate of increase in autism diagnoses continues.

I didn't vaccinate my dcs, dd1 didn't even have a pre school booster and had different baby jabs as I didn't want her having the whooping cough vaccine . This was due to our family always avoiding certain vaccinations-just the done thing and I was scared from an early age about vaccines

She got whooping cough aged 18months. She was really ill. Still I thought I was right about the mmr though and steadfastly refused it for dc 1,2 and 3

Then there was an outbreak of measles and I was terrified. Overnight I made the decision to have all vaccinated. I had dc4 and he's been vaccinated too and also with extras for all 4 (chickenpox men b and men acwy) I went from anti to pro overnight. My family so t agree with it but I know I've done the right thing by my dcs

I was v worried about ds1 and Mmr due to severe allergies but he was fine

You can look at rates of autism over the years in various countries, and compare those with rates of MMR vaccination, as it was adopted in different places in different years. No relationship. I was in the middle of my PhD when the controversy kicked off and had lots of time to read journals while experiments incubated - there just isn't any evidence of a problem. Whereas measles is a really nasty disease that was always feared way more than say chicken pox, and just personally I know a guy blind from it and a girl who had it at 12 months just before her MMR and nearly died.

Clairejessica You can indeed look up vaccine ingredients - in the doses included in the vaccine, they aren't toxic. Seeing thimerosal etc as ingredients and responding "OMG it's a toxin!" makes no more sense than refusing to take the recommended dose of paracetamol because taking 6 times that dose would be toxic. And thimerosal isn't in the MMR anyway.

My son had it without us giving it a second thought, and anyone with any sense will do the same.

I didn't want her having the whooping cough vaccine

The "evidence" on Whooping Cough which gave rise to the scares in the 1970s was as spurious as the 1990s' MMR scare.

www.csicop.org/si/show/anti-vaccination_fever_the_shot_hurt_around_the_world

Timetomuskup
Neither my sister or i were allowed to have the single measled vaccine back in 60/70s because my sister wss still having febrile convulsions at 8 . ( family has gefs+ but thst syndrome was only discovered recently)
My ds20 had his first fc 5 weeks after mmr and had over 20 until the age of 13. My dd had 4 fc as well. It has never been suggested that he had singles. It was suggested that he had booster in hospital, but we didnt bother and he had them as normal.

if you want a 100% guarantee of safety with the vaccine, you won't get it. Nothing is 100% safe. We are all terminally ill and I'm afraid that includes ickle preshus.

it is a matter of risk assessment. For most people, the diseases present a much, much higher risk than the vaccine does, so you have the vaccine. There are some for whom the risk is the other way round.

please read that cartoon. I knew that Wakefield's 'research' had long been discredited but the rest was news to me. Shocking.

BTW apparently I had a severe convulsion (fit) after my measles jab. I'm fine, although I do seem not to have any tolerance for non-scientific fuckwittery. Side-effect?

Ds had it, he didn't catch autism. Is that helpful?
I caught mumps during pregnancy and miscarrried. Could have been coincidence but I feel not. It causes infertility in men. It's also horrendously painful.
Measles and rubella cause horrible issues in children and unborn babies. We need herd immunity which means we need all children who can be to be immunised.

There are many groups on Facebook and other sites online that you can ask for information

Oh yes - Facebook research! Brilliant idea

Also, I've had mumps and it's bloody rotten. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Complications can include deafness and meningitis I believe, as well as infertility in men of course.