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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

948 replies

BespokeStereophonicVinyl · 20/04/2016 13:45

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh? Hmm

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

OP posts:
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6
LondonKitty · 23/04/2016 08:19

V funny thread in some respects, but I agree with Gray's point about it being an indication of female insecurity, which is a wee bit sad.

Or maybe I'm an underthinking, cognitively challenged individual, which is very possibly the case (despite the odd pg qualification, heavyweight yaddie yah and senior position, etc. Grin). Because throughout all my children's toddlerhoods, this is never something I got worked up about. Indeed, I miss having the time and opportunity to chat to other mums that toddler years provide. I'd quite happily chatter, chatter, chatter too, as idly as you like (pity the synonym appears to have developed negative connotations as I always saw it as a fun word with a lighter, more amusing nuance), all day long.

I think our version had the Daddies nod, nod, nodding, which I always assumed meant they were either sagely agreeing with whatever the mummies were saying about the impact of 19th century Russian literature on the propensity of modern Russians to cut queues at ski resorts (or other such v idle chat) or nodding politely because they hadn't actually read the Russian literature but wanted to look interested (or as clever as the mummies).

I also have to admit that if the daddies were shushing, I would have assumed they were shushing the children. Because Daddies do shush children (quite a lot around here, but, in defence of the daddies, the children are rather noisy).

In my world, if the daddies shushed the mummies, the mummies would laugh at them.

We probably couldn't sing a version of the song with a verse that we felt was suggesting that because we'd be posl so much at the thought.

Does my sense of worth have to be validated by the words of a nursery rhyme? Or do I validate my sense of worth by how I hear the words?

Feck... Look at what you have me doing on a perfectly fine Saturday morning... [storms off to find a bus and someone to chatter with]

Flashbangandgone · 23/04/2016 08:26

Analysis alert: Even to the extent that the women's talk has no actual content, it's just described as a yappity sort of noise. Whereas the men's has content, he's giving direction to someone, there's a purpose to his speech and none to hers.

Women tend to 'chat' more than men. On the other hand when men do communicate they tend to be more matter of fact with a clear purpose in mind. By seeking to challenge this observation, we are accepting that the communication mode associated more with men has more value than that associated more with women. That women's communication, in general, may be less purely functional and contain less 'useful content' is not necessarily a bad thing... To do otherwise is to value 'male-typical' modes of communication more than 'female-typical' modes... Why should women be expected to communicate in a way that conforms to the ways men traditionally communicate? Or be embarrassed or deny that they naturally chatter more?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/04/2016 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 23/04/2016 09:18

Larry no one is telling you how to
use mumsnet the reply was what does mumsnet offer and there are many options chat is one of them

I disagree it's about women's insecurities. Since becoming a parent my eyes have opened to all the conditioning that starts from a young age and I have become far more aware. Having a boy I have realised how for girls the ideas of how they should be and the messages they get is far more restricted and that annoys me I don't think it's good for society so will speak out and if that is viewed as me being an insecure woman who
is looking for things to be annoyed about, being called petty, enjoying being a victim, man hater and all the other things that are thrown at woman that challenge something others view as irrelevant well so be it. It's always the way

BertrandRussell · 23/04/2016 09:55

At the risk of sounding like w bro an record, there is a difference between chatter and chat.

"to speak (about unimportant matters) rapidly and incessantly; prattle
(intransitive) (of birds, monkeys, etc) to make rapid repetitive high-pitched noises resembling human speech
(intransitive) (of the teeth) to click together rapidly through cold or fear
(intransitive) to make rapid intermittent contact with a component, as in machining, causing irregular cutting

BertrandRussell · 23/04/2016 10:01

And

"to talk in an easy familiar way
to exchange messages in a chatroom"

No prizes for guessing which definition applies to which word. From the Collins Dictionary, by the way. Definitions from other dictionaries were similar. I only chose that one because it's the one DS uses for school, so not a special secret feminist version!

Flashbangandgone · 23/04/2016 10:08

Buffy
I'm not sure we are agreeing... By saying chattering is 'pointless noise' is demeaning it and the women (and men) who engage in it. Chattering may not communicate with any particular purpose and may be superficial in its content.... That doesn't make it 'pointless noise'. it can be a useful and pleasant way of developing and cementing friendships... A worthy end in itself. Chattering should be celebrated not criticised...

Flashbangandgone · 23/04/2016 10:13

Or definition as per Google:

chatter
ˈtʃatə/
verb
1.
talk informally about unimportant matters.
"she was chattering about her holiday"

Nothing pejorative there unless you think all talking should be weighty in content.

Sparklingbrook · 23/04/2016 10:18

Nothing I have read on this thread has convinced me there is a problem with chattering done on a bus by mothers as part of a nursery rhyme for preschoolers.

BertrandRussell · 23/04/2016 10:30

2nd definition from Google
"a series of short, quick high-pitched sounds.
"the starlings' constant chatter"

Flashbangandgone · 23/04/2016 10:34

Yes, it can also be used for birds... Doesn't mean initial and principal definition is invalid

Also note the definition of the noun, and the use of he:

noun
1.
informal talk.
"he was full of inconsequential but amusing chatter"

BertrandRussell · 23/04/2016 10:35

Google definition of "chat"

"1.talk in a friendly and informal way."

Even by that definition,I'm know I'd rather anything I did was described as chatting rather than chattering!

SurferJet · 23/04/2016 10:45

BertrandRussell
For someone who ( from what I've seen ) can chat for England, you're not doing your cause much good.

BertrandRussell · 23/04/2016 10:49

Absolutely I can chat for England, on here, and in RL!

But not chatter!!!!!

cbigs · 23/04/2016 10:56

Me neither sparkling to be so nose out of joint about chatter when clearly a lot of us are happy to be seen as chattering is madness! It's one bus journey! And it does not amount to women always talking nonsense any more than men shushing a distressed baby is men giving orders. Just . Ludicrous . Honestly Confused

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/04/2016 11:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparklingbrook · 23/04/2016 11:42

133 posts left until the thread is full. Lots of chattering about chattering. Grin

Itsmine · 23/04/2016 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cbigs · 23/04/2016 11:51

Women talking being pointless noise is not even a stereotype I'm aware of... Hmm

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/04/2016 12:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparklingbrook · 23/04/2016 12:05

If I ever hear The Wheels on the Bus ever again I will have a bit of a smile about that thread on Mumsnet. Grin

I hope to never hear it again though.

NeedACLeverNN · 23/04/2016 12:06

The wheels on the bus go round and round
Round and round
Round and round
The wheels on the bus go round and round
All day long!

Grin
Sparklingbrook · 23/04/2016 12:08

Angry Shock

Mind you the wheels on the bus don't go round 'all day long' do they? What about when they are at the bus stop picking up the cleaners with the mops etc? The whole thing is flawed.

Flashbangandgone · 23/04/2016 12:33

Is it just me, or is there something ever so slightly ironic about this thread of 800+ posts?!

BertrandRussell · 23/04/2016 13:12

Just invited some friends round for pontification and feminist coffee.....

"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?