To think if more emphasis was put on the arts in schools then core subjects would fall into place

[ConfuciousSayWhat]

I get that the funds aren't there for the arts and that in times of funding cuts they are the first thing to go, but Aibu to think the arts support academic learning?

Music opens up maths, languages, science
Drama opens up literature and languages
Art opens up maths, physics, biology

Nevermind how they feed into technology, design and architecture.

Aibu to be saddened at the loss of focus on the arts in schools?

Really

I agree about the EBAC and that dc should be able to choose what they want to do.
I also agree that a basic education is needed in life whatever they decide to do.
However, the fact remains that people with learning disabilities and SEN can find other less conventional routes into FE/ HE and rightly so. So bearing this in mind surely those without SEN should be able to choose alternatives to the usual prescribed GCSE subjects.
It surprised me when we were looking at the array of GCSE's available when dd was H.ed. We were looking towards the future of what she might want to do and the varying possibilities. There was practically every subject available and whilst it would be impossible for any school to provide all these choices it shows how little choice they do have.
I know now what GCSE choices she will make and I'm quite sure which A levels she will choose apart from the subjects where she has no choice they will be Arts related and more than likely 2 languages and just a single science she will have no interest in at all.

NewLife - I've just looked at your DD's school's leavers' destinations, and a good number of them either study music at university, or study non-music subjects. So they need good GCSEs and A'levels. NB those like your DD who want to sing professionally often do an academic undergraduate degree, and go to conservatoire after that, when their voice is more mature. And plenty of conservatoire leavers don't become professional performers. I don't think that not having a Plan B is the norm.

My dd attends a similar but different type of school & if the school were not able to demonstrating that children are making good academic progress they would be in danger of losing their funding.

Always.

hey, thanks for that. I have only seen last years and 2014 before, and they were on the website.
I think most bar two went on to do music last year, not sure about the year before, but it was certainly higher than the ones for 2012 or 2013. I've never seen the third suggested going into medicine or law, but heard of one or two.
I don't know about the plan B it's the general feeling I get when I speak to the children, maybe the plan B is taken by those who don't go onto conservatoires.
It sort of makes sense though that those who are determined in their direction wouldn't consider it.
Atm dd wants to go to RAM at 18/19 as she will do undergrad second diploma at school all being well. Hopefully first diploma (A level) standard at 14/16.
Her teachers said she'll do all grade 8's at 13/14.

You'll probably find the first diploma is post a level standard as Grade 8 Distinction is A level standard (off the top of my heD it's worth about half an a level)

Dance is a bit different but dd has just passed the ballet equivalent with distinction & now has 65 UCAS points

Well done your dd, the UCAS points are great and can add up through the grades.
I know music is the same for this and points start around grade 5 iirc.
Dd has some, not sure how many, maybe 20 or so.
I do know that the second ABRSM is first year of undergrad as the chief examiner confirmed this on the website a while back.
This is a good way to build up points for those who aren't academic as well.
In music there are points for practical and theory for grades 5 - 8.
20 distinction, 15 merit and 10 pass iirc, it's a while since I looked

" However, the fact remains that people with learning disabilities and SEN can find other less conventional routes into FE/ HE and rightly so. So bearing this in mind surely those without SEN should be able to choose alternatives to the usual prescribed GCSE subjects."

A lot of people who take alternative routes into higher education are people who failed GCSEs due to immaturity/ illness or difficult life events. It's much easier to get these qualifications at 16 than to do night school.

I would prune down what should be complusory and only have Maths and English as complusory GCSEs. It's not just access to higher education but people need theses subjects for access to basic employment. (Ie. Apprenticeships and many non graduate jobs require maths and English skills to GCSE.)

ReallyTired

When I did my C&G level 2 Numeracy and literacy there were people who'd slipped through the net for one reason or another.
I totally agree that we were all there because we needed to pass the tests for future employment. Many struggled and I cried when i just passed my numeracy.
I went through college ,and uni without anything but needed the level 2 to enable me to teach.
It was worth more than my Degree, masters credits and PgCE, it was hard but got there in the end.
No amount of lessons would help me achieve a GCSE I am just incapable of passing it, but I have other talents.

It's level 3 qualifications that have UCAS points so in music it's Grades 6, 7 & 8. Grade 5 is Level 2 so the same level as GCSE.

The next level up for Dd will be a Level 4 qualification. They don't have UCAS points as they are higher than A level.

The big difference in dance is there are two pathways. Grades (1-8) are meant for recreational dancers, there are a separate series of vocational grades which are started around Grade 4-5 ish which run parallel but are meant for vocational/serious dancers.

You have to have passed the one that dd has just passed (intermediate) before being allowed onto the RAD diploma courses.

Where I went to school we weren't taught to draw but weren't permitted to join art classes unless we demonstrated some talent of our own. Likewise with music, only those who played an instrument were allowed to take music. I was very academic, and would have loved to study music and play an instrument but there wasn't money at home for me to take extra-curricular lessons so it wasn't an option.

A level 2 numeracy qualification is exactly the same level as GCSE. You have reached GCSE standard and congratulations.

Nowadays children have to carry on resisting GCSE maths and English until they either get a pass or reach complusory school leaving age. (Unless they have major special needs) I think it's a waste of time to force someone who is immature to do resits at 17. Better to wait until 25 when they person is self moviated.

The DipABRSM is Level 4 (1st year degree) so no UCAS points for that one.

The LRSM is a Level 6 (final year degree level)

They used to do an Advanced Certificate exam back in my day - has that been abolished?

Thanks Really

It was such hard work but now I can measure curtains and do basic maths.
I know it's the same level and supposed to be equal but the content is far different and multiple choice.
I couldn't have taught primary or secondary as it isn't considered equal for this, or nursing so I believe? It seems stupid to have an equivalent that some areas don't recognise as such but I don't care, I finally did it.
My Ed psych report had my Maths age as 7 and I broke down doing the tests as I had stupid in my head, from school.
She reported that any skills in Maths were down to sheer tenacity, which at least made me feel as though I'd tried hard and it wasn't my fault.
I fear that dd will be the same, at least now there is help and support and other ways through.

Ballet
Thanks for the info, I did look a while back but now it's not so much my responsibility leave it to the school.

With dds results having arrived last week it was all fresh in my head.

NewLife - I'm surprised your DD's school is recommending that she go to conservatoire at 18, as from what we've been told the conservatoires don't like to take singers at that age, but tell people to go away and come back in a few years' time, to allow the voice to mature? Have you been told something different on this? Diplomas may be a different matter, as you have leeway to choose your own songs to suit your particular voice. The writing tasks must take a certain level of maturity and fluency in writing though?

Most singers on dh's conservatoire course were 18 (it was a 4 year course though)

That's another thing - why do conservatoire courses need to be 4 years' long? Just asking, in view of the now astronomical per year cost.

Yes, it's the destination for many of the singers at 18.
Some go to RNCM due to links with Opera North and others the London one that has links with ENO, think it's RAM but not sure.

She isn't sure 100% what she wants to do yet though as her other instruments are progressing well and she is enjoying performing in the bands, so may want to combine the two somehow.
But from what I gather the singers aren't discouraged from attending conservatoires at this age.

I think you have a very idealistic view of children. In a top academic school your theory may just work with some of the pupils. In a state comp, not so much!

It always used to be that a BA was 3 years & a BMus 4 years. There was the option to leave after 3 years but you wouldn't get the honours.

I know the costs will be horrendous and no idea what dd will do, we couldn't afford to pay for her.
I know she can save some money over the years and ds1 said he'll help out with a cheap very low interest mortgage for a flat that she could rent out a room to a student but not sure if this could come off or not.

Our dc are quite resourceful as they have had to be so I'm sure they'll sort something out between them all.
She can't wait to start busking and holiday work in restaurants to save a little towards future fees and costs.

I do think that children benefit a lot from being engaged with music and drama. I have seen it do a lot for my own dcs. Unfortunately, it is in the main the reserve of the middle classes, and music in particular is dominated by the privately educated. However, my dcs have sung in choirs and played in instrumental groups which have been free or next to free and have attracted at least some children from very badly off families. I suspect that it helps academically, and it certainly increases self-confidence - both standing up in front of other people, and the sense that you can achieve something special. That self-confidence encourages achievement in other areas of children's lives.
The government, while killing off music in many schools and counties (in various ways), have for the moment continued to fund the very high achieving children, who go to the specialist music schools or CATS. Long may that continue.

My son hates school and it's a real battle to get him in. Today he had gone in without fuss because it's music and drama today. However I don't think that school music and drama lesson would act as a carrot for all school refusers. Older children need more choice about what they study.