To have just realised that Mr Collins got Mrs Collins in the family way.

[squoosh]

Have just re-read Pride & Prejudice for the first time in yonks and at the end Mr Collins mentions 'dear Charlotte’s situation, and his expectation of a young olive-branch. How had I not noticed that before?

I'd always imagined dear Charlotte avoiding that messy business by keeping him occupied with his sermon writing and his gardening and his pash on Lady Catherine.

But she was a woman who knew what she wanted so I wouldn't be surprised if she was the one who took conjugal matters in hand.

Good old P&P, the book that keeps on giving.

Oh EverySong you big meanie. I'd have sent a letter every of often saying 'here's five guineas. No need to visit.'

I like to think that despite his obsequiousness, he had a major in his pants and knew exactly what to do with it. I bet Charlotte and he had simultaneously come together and did it at least three times that first night.

Mr Darcy on the other hand was a bit of a disappointment in the sack. But Lizzie just had a fiddle after.

I will apologise in advance for what I am about to add to this thread .

Earlier today I was watching Lucy Worsley's Harlots, Housewives and Heroines about the lives of women in Restoration England, so about 150 years before P&P. Apparently it was then believed that a woman had to orgasm to get pregnant - she had to 'release her seed' in the same way as her husband. (Yes, that is the exact phrase the academic used.) So if a man wanted children (and he did, as otherwise his virility could be questioned), he had to give his wife a damned good time! If that mistaken belief still held good in Regency England, Charlotte need not qualify for our pity!

Elendon

Humphrey you're absolutely right I'd forgotten that. Still not sure why not hundreds of children though.
Elendon I need brain bleach.

squoosh there's a great line in a Hilary Mantel book where a main character is described as "the kind of son you pay to stay away"

She's such a massive twat though, especially in the Firth version, and lords it over Lizzie because she basically believes she's managed to steal her sisters bloke.

Wickham would be on the SO register in this day and age. How old was Georgiana when he went after her? Was it 15 as well or is she 13?

Elendon and Where

WhereYou in Restoration England didn't all the wedding guests pile into the marital chamber to see that the deed was actually done? Kind of like period dogging?

Oh they were a fun and filthy lot. But I'm not going to let my mind even wander to the idea of Mr Collins pushing his good lady wife over the precipice of ecstasy. Just......no.

When Mr Collins disrobed, Charlotte gasped in surprise, and delight. "I will not apologise" said Mr Collins...

Yeah..... AIBU to not want to move to Bath?

(In FWR) It totally sucks that I have to publish my novels anonymously for fear of it being found out i am actually a woman.

(Relationships) My sister is pretty overbearing sometimes. She is really uptight about our family's "reputation".

Oh... that was in repsonse to therealyellow but thread has moved on a bit...........

I remember reading that, and shuddering for Charlotte. OTOH Jane doesn't actually describe him as physically repulsive, just 'heavy' IIRC. She didn't go in for a lot of description of anything. I'm sure poor old Charlotte would have been well aware of what she was in for - as others have said, country people, cows and sheep and pigs all at it...

For a truly physically repulsive character, you can't beat Trollope's Mr Slope in Barchester Towers. Genius in the descriptive shudder-stakes. Was going to post it but Kindle is out of juice. Might post it later...

Don't want to derail, but I've always felt rather sorry for Mrs Bennett. I know she's silly, but she's stuck with five daughters to marry off and not much money to do it with. In addition although I loved Donald Sutherland in the Keira Knightly version, Mr Bennett is a rubbish husband. He hasn't made any provision for his family after his death and yet looks down on his wife for at least trying to do something.

Sorry, can you tell that I'm getting old with a marriage-age daughter who has a hopeless boyfriend. Lord, I'm Victorian.

I think we should revive rumors of women needing a damn good orgasm if there's to be any hope of there being a baby.

Actually, let's just revive rumors of women needing a damn good orgasm. Regularly.

Their father hasn't saved to leave his daughters money to support themselves after his death, when they will no longer have a home and income from the estate - they will have only a tiny income via their mother unless they marry.

Though it should be noticed here - and this is the same fate that befalls the family in Sense and Sensibility - that the "tiny income" in this context means "just about on the threshold of being independently wealthy" ie still much better off than 90% of the population. In S&S this "tiny income" is sufficient to rent a 5/6 bedroom house, keep 2 servants and feed and clothe the family and servants to a modest but adequate level without anyone in the family doing a stroke of work. It is portrayed as a terrible fate but they still would have been rich compared to most mumsnetters.

Heartstrumpsdiamonds - love it!

In the awful, obvs not authoized Death Comes To Pemberley Kitty is barely in it she lives with their mother paying calls etc instead of Mary who is a very happy and very superior vicars wife.

DCTP is properly shit though, very badly written, I don't recommend

It was CRAP, wasn't it?? I reread recently to see if it really was that bad, and it really really is. The characters are all wrong and it's just awful.

I've just finished reading The Tenant of Wildfell Hall again. Now THAT is an amazing book, and really highlights what life was like for women in abusive marriages. I highly recommend!

True about the income being actually quite reasonable. But social status was so fixed that losing it was a huge, huge failure. Mr Bennett was beyond the pale for potentially plunging his wife and daughters into relative penury and worse, a loss of status. They were gentlemens daughters after all!

I love this thread, and especially Elendon's thoughts about Mr Collins as hawt and well-blessed in the trouser department. :o

I'm thrilled to be teaching "Persuasion" this year, not least because I overheard a student saying, with evident approval: "All they do is go on walks. Nothing actually happens."

TENANT is one of my top 3 ALL TIME books WellErr we must be kindred spirits !!!!

Oh and DCTP the worst was the total personality transplants she gave Lizzie and Col. Fitzwilliam who was a total knobber

I love this thread, although I am scarred by the thought of Mr Collins giving Charlotte a right good going over as per marital duties. He was just so fawning I imagine he'd be very eager to please .

Might have to dig it out and reread! Plus, totally missed the olive branch baby, thanks squoosh.

The 'must have an orgasm' had a severe down side, at least in medieval times. If a woman claimed to have been raped. and turned out to be pregnant - well, she obviously hadn't been raped at all. Without consent and pleasure she just couldn't have got pregnant. So, a bad woman.

And Wickham wouldn't have been on the register. Until late in the 19th century the age of consent was 12. I believe in some parts of Europe it's still 14 or 15.

in this day and age not in those times - they didn't have a register! Nicking Year 11 girls from their abodes in the middle of the night to go to Gretna?? And then being located above a London pub?! I should think it would make the papers!!!