to think it tales a special kind of wankbadger to fine the homeless *for being homeless*?

[TaintMyBag]

to fine the homeless for being homeless?

Our local council is instating Public Space Protection Orders which mean that police can fine people for being poor. It's mean, it's nasty and surely it's a waste of tax payer's money as well? They can be fined for sleeping rough or begging. Well surely this will be all that's needed to persuade them to not do that any more... they can just pay rent to avoid the fine.

engage.adur-worthing.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/save-as-PDF-458922-Draft-Public-Space-Protection-Orders-Worthing-10.12.16.pdf

I think elected officials forcing prayers on everyone in a council meeting is more anti-social tbh.

There is a missive correlation between homelessness and poor MH and/or drug addition. Often, event with support, people who have been long-term homeless struggle to stay in housing.

Its a really complex problem that needs huge amounts of money and support thrown at it... fining homeless people is NOT the answer.

Its a really complex problem that needs huge amounts of money and support thrown at it

Not even money, really. Just support and a will to do it.

Suggestion (off the top of my head) - an incentive for people with a spare room (I wonder how many thousands of spare rooms Worthingtinians have ?) to allow a homeless person to stay for 4 weeks. Enough time to get washed, stabilise, and maybe engage with the jobcentre.

Yes, there are downsides (I bet HMRC instantly jump on the incentive for a start). But it's a hell of a lot better than "fine the bastards".

There are loads of potential solutions. Possibly an infinite amount. Limiting discussion to one or two whiffs of stacking the deck.

To who ever said it isn't illegal to beg, actually it is.

Under the vagrancy act.

However there is no jail sentence to it. All the police can do is move you on and ban you from returning to a place if you persist

Don't agree LurkingHusband I think it is really complex. Lots of street sleepers have mental health problems and/or drug abuse problems or problems with the law (eg illegal immigrant). Some are under age. None of the above are going to be 'stabilised' by 4 weeks in Jo Blogg's spare room.

Most homeless people don't end up sleeping rough for long. They use hostels or sofa surf (or turn to crime and prostitution to raise some cash.They need help too but are an 'invisible' problem.

fake - I agree. There have always been people who can not manage tenancies. Years and years ago my mum used to work in a place that provided a room, and meals for people who could not cope with tenancies. It was paid for by benefits, and they got a small bit of pocket money every week. It was mainly older men living there who had lived on the streets for decades, but it closed down a long time ago.

What there does need to be, is lots of help to identify those newly homeless and help them back into a home quickly.

Don't agree LurkingHusband I think it is really complex.

Did I say it wasn't ? In fact, the more complex it is, then the more potential solutions we (in the shape of the people we pay to run our country for us) should be considering.

The fact we aren't speaks volumes (about the people we pay to run our country for us).

I think that (in those countries where you are entitled to a home) the main problem is that the system is so damn complicated.

You have to apply for benefits, you have to fill out all that paperwork, you have to do this, you have to do that ... people with mental health problems often cannot cope with that sort of stuff. I'm just a tiny bit depressed, but I get so frustrated so fast when I have to do this kind of thing ...

The place cleaty describes seems like a sensible solution. I wonder why it closed down?

YANBU OP. You would need to be a massive wank badger to think this was an appropriate solution to people sleeping rough. Signed the petition.

It was me who said: 'it isn't illegal to beg'. I didn't realise it IS, sorry.
Perhaps that is partly the rationale behind the Big Issue (ie not begging but selling a magazine that is consciousness raising to boot :)

So how come charities can beg (often aggressively) in the High Street and via phones?

Worthing County Council should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
There but for the Grace of God and all that...

Usually I'm against ideas like this but I lived in a city centre flat with a good friend a few years ago and occasionally chatted with one of the neighbours who was on JSA when we were in the communal outdoor space at the same time .
While in the city centre one day I was just about to give a couple of pound to the 'homeless' man in front of me when I clocked on it was said neighbour who told me it was a brilliant gig if you knew the right times and places and that he wasn't the only one of his mates doing it.

Something like this might prevent people who aren't legitimately homeless begging and people begging aggressively, it could work if instead of targeting those who are homeless it targets those that are actually causing a nuisance and stopping people wanting to use the area.

Hmmm. IME people sitting on the street who are in great need usually look in a bad way. I know it's a generalisation but IME they often look, to my untrained eye like they have a drink or drug addiction - pale, very thin, bad skin, slow reactions or 'hyper'. That's just my experience of course.

Suggestion (off the top of my head) - an incentive for people with a spare room (I wonder how many thousands of spare rooms Worthingtinians have ?) to allow a homeless person to stay for 4 weeks. Enough time to get washed, stabilise, and maybe engage with the jobcentre.

Are you fucking kidding me??? You are coming across as extremely naive. The vast majority of long term homeless don't manage in supported accommodation. PMSL that you think the problem is a lack of beds and that people with spare rooms should open up their houses for '4 weeks' and that will 'stabilise' the life of someone who is homeless.

I have spent a lot of time voukenteering with a charity in the homeless space. Lack of a roof isn't the key issue - being able to manage a tenancy whilst having poor MH or substance addiction are the key issues. It's incredibly demoralising to work hard to get someone onto a supported tenancy - better than a hostel, their own flat with lots and lots of support to help them on the path to moving onto being more self supporting. And then about 3 weeks after they've got the supported tenancy, they are back on the streets because they couldn't cope.

And whilst this is something close to my heart there is no fucking way i would let any of the clients I worked with into my home!

I would just like to point out that if you claim CHB and have a spare bedroom you are fined, and have to pay the extra from your benefits.
But you cannot rent out that room to a homeless person.

Most tenancies prevent you from sub letting. And you would lose other benefits as you have an adult living in your household.
The whole penny pinching system fines poverty and prevents sensible solutions.

But you cannot rent out that room to a homeless person.

A LACK OF A BED/ROOF IS NOT USUALLY THE ISSUE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LONG TERM HOMELESS! Offering your spare bed is not a solution.

Well, that might be a solution to the 'sofa surfers' or the 'invisible homeless' who you don;t see on the streets because they spend a night on their Nan's sofa, a night or two on a friends sofa, back to their Dad's for a night etc etc... But the people you see sleeping on the streets generally need a fuck of a lot more help than you renting out your bloody spare room.