AIBU to think 'if you don't like his temper tantrums, calm the fuck down yourself!'

[TooGood2BeFalse]

Hi all, really at a loss as to how and help my family and would be really grateful for any advice or constructive criticism.

Our DS has just turned 4. He is a happy, healthy, gorgeous fellow but a complete Jekyll Hyde. He was a late talker, but has generally taken massive leaps in development since he turned 3 and is just streets ahead of where he was. He goes to nursery 4 days a week, and despite acknowledging that his understanding and social skills are a little delayed, he is very smart, calm, well-behaved and co-operative in class.

At home, he is either charming and great fun, or ridiculously stroppy, stubborn and will NOT do as he's told without screaming and occasionally hitting. He hates anybody else talking to me, so will start singing at the top of voice to drown out DH, which irritates DH immensely.

He has no impulse control, and will throw anything, break things etc then look at us for a reaction. He's not the most difficult child there ever was, but he can be hard work. No SN recognised as of yet.

My husband loves him to pieces, but has less patience for the constant drama and fights over the smallest things (e.g. sock on wrong foot) and does not enjoy family time. He tries to take DS out for 'daddy time', at least twice a week as he wants to bond with him, but it almost always ends in DS having a tantrum about leaving or not being allowed to do something, and they both come back upset.

My DH is quite similar in temperament - quick to fly off the handle, anxious, occasionally quite grumpy, likes his own way and has a history of disliking authority. He has previously taken anger management courses. We have never hit each other or smacked our son.

I feel some days like I am fighting to keep them both calm and happy and failing desperately, I dread weekends as if DS gets grumpy DH starts moaning - the pressure to keep things peaceful is immense. While on the one hand I do understand that DS can be so infuriating, I also think as a parent, DH needs to calm down and stop ranting as negativity is getting us nowhere.

So sorry for the huge essay, I am just gutted for them both as they went to the beach this morning as no nursery today. DS wanted to run into a restaurant all sandy and naked, DH said No..DS screamed and hit him in front of everyone. Two unhappy boys.

Does anyone have any advice? Feel like I am living with two teenagers. Am also nearly 27 weeks pregnant, so already tired and a bit fed up.

For me a lot of issues came from the fact that I was expected to jump to it instantly and comply when I was a child; I usually did just that because I was scared of my mum (and she'd have shouted if I disobeyed my dad, so they were both 'covered'). I now ask my kids to do things and get really internally furious because they don't do as I used to. I quietly seethe about how much better it would be if they were just terrified of their parents like I was as a child

Your DH needs to realise that he is an equal parent to you and that means taking responsibility for learning how to talk to your DS, not expecting you to fix things when he messes up.

It also means that he has to learn that being a parent isn't always easy and actually he has to take on the role of adult to teach his DS about appropriate behaviour, both in the way he treats him and in the behaviour he models.

OP my DS (also 4) is very similar. Except I am a single parent so it's definitely not modelled behaviour (although his dad is a shouty, aggressive twat, he only sees DS every two weeks for just over 24hrs). I have worked really hard with his nursery to change the way I approached his oppositional behaviour - saying 'no' or shouting at him just ramps things up. I try to frame it in a kind of 'once you have done x, then you can do this other thing that you really want to do'. Using your sandy naked restaurant situation, maybe 'DS, once you have your clothes on we can go in and get food' then distract with talk of food and other stuff. Doesn't always work, nothing does, but this and variations has really helped us.

Seasonal, sorry to hear that, me too sometimes. It is not a nice feeling.

LaContessa - yes, I'm not excusing his behaviour but I can see why he is not a 'natural' parent. His dad also left when he was nine, so he was left with his grandmother who had another 3 children still to raise and was often left with the other 4 grandkids (ahem, interesting family). DH was a very wild teenager/young adult left pretty much to his own devices, MIL does love to remind him of this.

OneFlew I think you're right, I have said to him that parenting can't all be about the fun bits, and that we can't just lose our shit every time a child plays up - nor can I do the hard bits all by myself. I can see how much DS sees DH as his role model, he tries to copy him in so many little funny ways e.g. wants to wear grey trousers on the same days as Daddy.

was going to recommend that book as well...some of teh stuff can only be done with older kids but the principles really helped- if both dh and you read it - then make sure you do leave them to sort it out - I often tried to 'help' and generally it didn't

consistency consistency consistency - was the thing that made a real difference...
(ds also liked a plan and a timetable )

I would see mil less if its not helping - fine for grandma 'treats' but doesn't sound that she was there to parent dh so its not her turn now..esp as counter to your wishes

another one that worked for ds was marbles in a jar - as a way of rewarding lovely behaviour then when the jar was full -or reached a mark on it if you see what i mean then a treat - whether that was a little toy like a car or a trip to the park/cinema whatever - he chooses - you can do this where you take them away as well for poor behavior but that is tricky when so young - I would rather reward positive behavior and ignore what i could

he will also have an unsettling time when the baby arrives so if you have a consistent approach before then may make it bit easier

a friend did one for everyone in the family so they each had a jar so everyone was involved (they had sibling issues) and also meant the kids could recommend marbles for each other and the parents - really worked for them

I think you need to talk to MIL as well.

Her excusing bad behaviour that would normally be picked up on is not supporting you or doing your ds any favours.

BUT... that, too, is going to be a tricky conversation. If I were you I would ask for her 'help'. Say something like, you know she is a big influence on your ds so you need her support in making a start in tackling some of his behaviour. But be sure to be really specifice eg if he refuses to tidy away toys you will remove a favourite toy for the next morning - and she is to do the same or tell you.

BTW... it's not hard to see why your DH's parenting skills are off is it, if she left then came back, that must have created a rather fragmented model for him, at the least.

No it's very hard with her..and when I do try to explain she gets very defensive. I have trouble explaining this to DH because he will immediately just take my side and have a go at her - which I do respect, definitely not a mummy's boy - but they almost always end up having a nasty argument which makes me bite my tongue. But DS adores her, but I agree she is bad for him.

DS has tried very hard to break the mould he knew, he looked after DS as a tiny baby went I first went back to work and is consistent in being the one to bath him etc which he thinks is a daddy job ;-P He could definitely do more, but gets dispirited if DS doesn't want him or acts up and then will 'disappear' which makes us argue.

Thanks to all for such helpful advice, I do really appreciate it.

Meant DH has tried to break the mould...

Mil sounds bit of nightmare really, ds will adore as no boundaries... She sounds really mean to your dh ...lots of people have wild teenage years. (I did) No need to throw it into his face now...my mum doesn't although I'm sure she maybe thinking it if ds is difficult but often (not always those that have a very hard time is due to family issues... I would be expecting her to apologise to your dh for not being around not having a go at him...

I really hope you have his back when she starts... Your immediate family is much more important than her...

My husband and son do this and one is 9 the other is 57! My hubby is a large child and thinks i let our son get away with a lot? I dont, he is just older and does not understand. I really feel like walking out on them both today as we have had such a bad weekend. My husband does nothing with our son and my son struggles because he does not fully understand? I try my very best but its hard. Believe me you are not the only one x

I think if you cut back significantly on the time spent with MIL, both your DS and DH's attitudes will improve. I would definitely not give her unsupervised time with your DS.

Oh lord , I can't offer any help other than let them deal with it and take yourself out of the firing line. My DH has a horrific temper when the DC's were very small and particularly DD1 who learnt sarcasm early. I used to dive in between just before he started throwing stuff and swearing at them ! But We did seperate for 9 months until he got a grip ! Now dd1 is a teen and they are at it again, except no throwing other than words and I walk away with DD2 until they sort it. I find they don't argue as much and they have agreed to only argue like this with each other so but it has made them both much nicer to be around in general mil recently admitted she had the same issues with him as her temper was awful

Someone might have suggested this already, but aside from husband issue, have you worked on giving your son the tools to explain his emotions verbally? IME the tantrums etc improve massively once they start school, but as he is slightly delayed in his communication/social skills, it might take him longer. There are books that explain emotions, even 'Sing and Sign' gives signs for emotions which can be used if speech is too difficult in the heat of the motion. You can also talk about pictures in books, how does that person feel, and then when a meltdown looks imminent ask how he feels, if he doesn't know then give some suggestions - 'are you feeling angry because you can't have any more pudding?' 'OK, it's okay to be angry.'

One of my children was like this at that age...turns out both my dc and my husband have aspergers and both are now diagnosed.

My wee boy is now 18....but he used to kick off regularly. Spectacular tantrums. Ear splitting screams. Hard as it was to admit, it was down to inconsistent parenting. OH would do anything to making it stop. I was trying to give boundaries. Playing one parent against the other was a great game he learned.
Once we both got on the same page, his behaviour improved immensely.
So when one of us said NO to something, the other one backed them up....even if they didn't agree. United front. Discuss issues when wee one in bed.
Also food. If he was hungry he had gone past the point of no return.
Fortunately they grow out of it. My son is a lovely young man.......

I have a similar tempered 3 and 38 year old!

We have found using the rainbow behaviour chart really good. He can be on the raincloud, sunshine or rainbow and moves up and down depending on how he behaves. If on the raincloud there is no tv or treats, sunshine is normal and rainbow he gets special things and treats.

It helps my husband as it's easy to do and he wants to be on the rainbow so it works well both ways.

If you manage to sort out your husband's temper, I'd love some tips on that!

hello, i feel sorry for you. You are pregnant with what i assume is second child?
Things need to get sorted now before the baby comes or you are going to be dealing with 3 children (DH Included). Firstly tell your husband to wise the hell up. he needs to realise that with you being pregnant and the pressure off DS (from what i am gathering as jealousy issues with your DH communicating with you ) is not going to help you and your stress levels. secondly i would not mollycoddle your son this is not going to help him at all . The girls at nursery should be able to help you and give advice. I think you and your husband need to sit down and talk about a plan for every time your child has a temper tantrum whether its a naughty step or a reward chart which may help to encourage positive behaviour. But definitely do not give into your son and his tantrums, speak with your doctor explain everything and from what i read there may be slight signs off SN. this should be discussed with your doctor and the nursery and ask them for copies off his observations and EYFS If they do the early ears foundation. i hope this helps.

I have a similar situation, DS is now 6. Your DS behaviour sounds totally normal to me for his age. We have by no means totally solved our problem but I have found a few things that seem to have helped. One was to try really hard to back DH up with the point he was making in front of DS (unless he was being totally unreasonable!!) and that seemed to help him feel calmer. The second is to try to model positive ways of handling situations that could escalate into big disagreements and to help DH out of situations of conflict with DS (whilst backing him up on the point he is making) by suggesting compromises or showing DS a way of doing what DH wants but also having some element of control himself. I have also tried to help DH see that DS's responses to him are partly a product of their relationship (so he is finding fun things they both love to do together). But also that DS reacts because DH is constantly giving him instructions that he expects him to follow straight away and DS just needs to feel more in control than that allows. Now DH realises he has to pick his battles a bit more and let the little things slip.
Hope things get better for you, it is exhausting xx

Same here notso about him getting so irate when dd won't do what he's says immediately, because she is in the middle of something. I have also asked dp how he would feel if that were him, as he absolutely hates being asked to stop in the middle of a task! My do seems to have the attitude that she's somehow trying to get the better of him and 'win', rather than she is just being herself, with her own feelings.

My dp had very laissez faire parents, and I think he blames them to some extent for his own lack of personal discipline. He sees himself in dd, and I think that's why she irritates him so much. He has promised to step back a bit, as I've pointed out that it ruins my chance of enjoying my relationship with her if he keeps upsetting her, and sending her into the stratosphere all the time. She's a good girl. The problem is they are too alike!

A lot of this rings true for me. Ds1's emotional development is a fair way behind his general intelligence. If he's tired/hungry/in a mood then he can go from 0 to 100 in a second. His latest thing is telling me where exactly he wants me to walk. If I don't do exactly as he says he melts down. Anyway, combine this with his well meaning but tired and stressed from super long working hours dad.. Ds1 is nearly 4, ds2 is 2 and dd3 is 4 months. The recent months have been pretty stressful and I know the feeling of dreading weekends.

My hubby and me have talked a lot about this, he reckoned I was being too soft. And I didn't like him losing his shit so much with Ds1. Anyway so here are a few things that have helped...

Trying to avoid hunger (do breakfast asap!)
Avoiding loads of sugar
Same with tiredness
Setting up a routine e.g. getting dressed straight after breakfast (getting ready and out the door is a classic flash point when he can drag his heels)
Fixing up a set activity for Saturday mornings which is when it's trickiest
As much exercise and outside time as poss
As much one on one time as poss, such as stories or going out on his bike (both pretty difficult when I'm doing it by myself)

When Ds1 starts to melt down we tend to give him a choice (like with the walking thing, I would wait for him then we could go on to the park or we would go home)
Also do counting to 3
Sometimes he responds to talking about how he's feeling (are you feeling angry/sad/frustrated? What could we do to help you feel better?)
If he gets unsafe (hitting, kicking, occasionally biting) he has to go somewhere else until he's ready to talk and be kind and gentle etc

I tend to find that we get in a bit of a negative spiral every so often. I try to keep things as positive as possible so I'm not constantly nagging (usually about not squashing the baby). I try and tell him what I want him to do rather than not to do stuff.

Anyway this the theory and it is what works when I'm not knackered and shouting

If you can talk to dh about strategies, maybe ask what he thinks might help weekends be less stressful (my dh suggested the Saturday morning class idea)
I find having a loose strategy in place between us helps keep us on the same page and we have kind of met in the middle. Although it has taken a few arguments discussions

It feels like a bit of a steep learning curve a lot of the time. I hope this rant is helpful in some way... I searching for tips myself!!

I second the not taking things personally approach. That really helps us

Getting on this as I thought I was the only one! 4 year old DD and 34 year old OH, rubbing each other up the wrong way! I also dread "family time" as it always brings at least one row, with OH having zero patience and DD find of her own way.
Lots of tears have fallen on this subject.

Feeling for you as I had the exact same situation with DS2. DP telling me the kid needed to be seen by a doctor because he rejected his Dad etc .... I tried to reason DP and remind him he was the adult in the relationship but it was very hard.
Luckily things got better since DS2 started school last september. He just matured bit by bit and we don't have such stressfull times anymore. In our case, an earlier bedtime helped generally speaking, and what seems to be the end of a very long toddlerhood ( he's now 5 1/2 ).
Hopefully things will get better over time, fingers crossed for you!

Dd and dh are like this. Dd is nearly 12 now. I can relate to so much here. I can see why dh gets infuriated. Ds is so much easier and just gets on with it. But it's so much easier to pick your battles.

DD was just having a massive tant because I needed to go out at bedtime. As I looked back from getting in the car I saw oh throw her onto the sofa in anger.
This is bullshit. I need to go out and I don't know what to do. I don't want to leave her here and I have to get him to sort this out right now.