to think it's not really possible to make a decent living from handmade/crafty-type businesses?

[Tinklewinkle]

I really enjoy making stuff - knitting, sewing, anything that takes my fancy really.

I've made things for my home, my kids,, as gifts and as favours if people ask me.

I recently made an appliqué cushion for a friend to give as a gift, and off the back of it, I've been asked if I'd like some stalls at some of our local festival/fayre events over the summer.

I'm really proud of myself to be asked actually as the standards at these places are quite high, so as a confidence boost/feather in my cap I'm really flattered, but I'm just not convinced that once I've accounted for the cost of materials and my time, people are willing to pay the true cost of handmade products.

For example, the appliqué cushion - a couple of hours, at the minimum wage, plus a few quid for fabric, plus a cushion pad, we're looking at £20-25.

I recently made a clock and a mirror for my living room, people who have seen them have been really complimentary about them and suggested selling them, but again, by the time I've accounted for materials and time are people really willing to pay £££ for it - I had an old pallet, plus an old mirror and paint already so cost wise it was less than a tenner for a clock movement on eBay, but they took a few hours to made, and I won't always have access to free wood, an old mirror, etc. There are similar on websites like Etsy for £90/100 ish, but it just seems way too much to me - which is why I made them myself in the first place

So, AIBU to think, yes, it's a lovely dream, but when push comes to shove you can't make a proper living at it?

I would defo suggest doing a class or similar, I would love to learn a craft and would pay reasonably to do so

Trying to cast a little ray of light into this (realistically) dismal assessment of what people will pay ... The other night, a friend-of-friend posted an ad for those crochet mermaid blanket things on Facebook. They were about £20 but I recognised the photo from somewhere else, so clicked on it to warn the person this probably wasn't the real deal.

Loads of other people made the same comment! This is where it gets good - some of the others knew where the original came from: they were hand made by a real person in the UK, and cost around £90. Then some more people came and wrote that they make them too, gave links and suchlike, and all charged between £70 and £100 for these things.

The thread turned into a proper little marketplace :) Folks were ordering from the makers who'd posted their stuff, tagging friends to order them, and all sorts! Nobody wanted the Chinese rip-off (or at least they wouldn't say so, heh.)

The salient feature here, I think, is that this friend is very well off, creative, and lives one of those beautiful lives we'd all like to hate if the person wasn't so lovely. Naturally she, and all her friends, would far rather have a sofa blanket crocheted to order by a British craftswoman than something made under god knows what conditions for a boss who steals intellectual property.

Tl;dr: I agree with those who say know your worth, price accordingly, and find the appropriate marketplace(s). If marketing doesn't come naturally to you, never mind. You can set up accounts with the nearest-matching online marketplaces and use the experience as test marketing.

But never under-price. Did you know After Eights were a failed cheap line, until a brand manager hit on the idea of tripling the price and re-positioning them?

Funnily enough I mentioned to H today about this.

I cook every day for my family and I have my "old men" as I call them, who I will do the odd dinner for. They are school friends of my dads who are single in their 60's for various reasons. My old men are perfectly capable of looking after themselves but things like cottage pie, chicken pie, chilli, steak pie, lasagne etc are not worth making for one person so they appreciate it when I make it for them. One of them said that I should sell my pies as I would make a fortune, except I wouldnt. If I added up the cost of the ingredients for a decent steak pie plus the time it takes, no one would buy it.

I think that with handmade stuff, you should do it as a hobby and if occasionally you make a bit of money then its a bonus. You cant make any money out of it because we are so used to cheap massed produced stuff that no one is willing to pay what it really costs. We all want handmade ethical products but then shout "HOW MUCH?!" when faced with the bill.

YY -- You need to be willing to tap into the craze of the moment. Fascinators went well a few years ago. Now you can make a bit if you flog Frozen stuff. So versatility is important. Don't be wedded to your product. To establish your price, make a few fancier items with a hefty price, so the regular offerings seem like a bargain by comparison even though your profit margin can be significant. You might even sell some of the more expensive bits, you never know.

And keep away from places people who have an interest in crafts, knitting, etc. go to. My mum was a pita to take clothes shopping as she would spend her time inspecting seams and muttering about how she could make far better quality herself, and rolling her eyes at prices. She made all her own clothes and most of mine as a child. But sometimes it's nice to just spend money and get a T shirt you fancy -- she couldn't see that. Also she came from a generation that Did.Not.Spend.Money.

YANBU. I have been asked to make things before for people who are "happy to pay". I knit dinosaurs a lot and was offered a tenner for one once. They take me around 20 hours to knit (I don't knit slowly but I don't knit very fast either!). I've also been asked to make Minion hats after making one for my nephew, was offered a fiver for one for a toddler

What amazes me is when I see people quibbling over paying £15-20 for a handmade baby blanket (knit or crochet, they weren't sure), yet they're happy to pay £45 for a machine knit baby blanket from mamas and papas (have actually seen this conversation take place!)

I make photoshop images of children as mermaids, fairies etc and they are gorgeous, personalised custom images. I have an etsy shop and a website. All easily findable on google but have so far had only one commission. I only charge £18 and there is a minimum of 3 hours work involved. The one I did get paid for took me about 16 hours as it was almost mission impossible but was so good the lady paid an extra 10$ she loved it so much. Can't show it as its my T&C

So basically it's not worth doing.

The irony is I'd do it for free as its just my hobby.

I think that with handmade stuff, you should do it as a hobby and if occasionally you make a bit of money then its a bonus

The irony is I'd do it for free as its just my hobby

I think this is often the reason that it's hard to make a living from a craft. There is always someone willing to do it for a very small profit, or even a loss, without really thinking about the actual costs and time put in. So it undervalues the price of someone charging a 'proper' price.

I do actually make a wage from a craft ( I wouldn't call it a living), aiming mostly at the wedding market. But is can be hard at times, as brides will say they've had a quote at a fraction of the price I would charge. I know from experience that the other quote will make no money at all, but what can you do?

That's a fair point budgie, but only if you are stealing someone else's intellectual property and ideas.

Surely everyone has a right to share their creativity and produce something loved by the purchaser?

I've seen similar products to mine and costing over twice the amount. I wouldn't steal their ideas but I can see they are no different from mine.

Katie, I read your description before clicking on your picture - and thought "yuck", I hate twee! But your example's really lovely :) Hope your market finds you soon.

I've just remembered…somewhere in Ireland, I found a flyer of a local potter who was producing really, really beautiful stuff. Simple lines, gorgeous marine colours, and very reasonable prices. We drove to her studio four times before we finally found her open, bought three pieces, she chucked in a small dish for free, and we're thrilled to own them.

The difference was that we couldn't have bought cheaper anywhere else as we simply had never seen what she was doing before. She was also doing it exceptionally well. She was probably not making a massive profit, but we didn't hesitate to buy, and I'm sure we're not alone.

I guess there is a still a market for exquisite things that you can't get a cheaper version of from amazon or John Lewis!

I also agree with the poster upthread that saying that 'people don't appreciate handmade anymore' might be true, but simply 'being handmade' doesn't always mean that it's intrinsically more desirable/hardwearing/whatever.

Having said that, we're restoring a dolls house at the moment. Anyone make beautiful, non-twee dolls house stuff?

Surely everyone has a right to share their creativity and produce something loved by the purchaser?

I guess that's fair enough, to be honest if a bride says they've had a lower quote, I tend to just let them get on with it, because I'm not going to spend all my time making a product at a loss. The people that do make a loss eventually tend to either up their prices, or give up and go back to making things for friends and family only. But it can take a while for them to realise that it's just not worth their time as a business.

Katie, I read your description before clicking on your picture - and thought "yuck", I hate twee! But your example's really lovely

Me too! The description sounded like everything I don't like, but then saw it and realised that all 3 DC would probably love one!

Interesting thread.

DH & I were talking about this last night. We have an allotment and were talking about whether it is possible to actually make money from the produce. Our conclusion was the only way to do this is to have a specialist value added product which doesnt have a cheap substitute. You see so many 'hand crafted' jams/preserves/pickles. The material cost for the content is probably pretty low but jars, lids, labels etc can cost a fortune.

Gnome I made a load of marmalades and chutneys for Xmas presents one year, I thought it would be cheaper than buying gifts. I was sooooo wrong! Cost me a small fortune and wasnt worth what it cost, never mind what I would have had to charge to make a profit.

This is why I say that doing it as a hobby is the best way, for me at least. I love cooking and sometimes I will do this and give stuff to people who I know will appreciate it. But I wouldnt try to make any money at it because its just not worth the amount of work and initial outlay for what I would make from it. I really do think that cheap food prices and cheap imported clothes and homewares have given us a false sense of what things cost.

Birthday cakes are a perfect example. You can buy a character cake from Tesco for £10 but to get one made bespoke you are looking at £50+ because it takes time. Yet when you come to tell someone they are appalled! I a golden snitch cake for DD and a friend asked me to make one for them. I said that I would but she needed to know that it would be expensive and I gave her a breakdown of the cost of the ingredients. I think at first she thought I was exaggerating to make a profit from her (why I shouldnt make a profit I dont know!) but obviously either checked it out herself or asked another baker because she changed her mind and got a shop bought cake instead. I am sure that she thought I could make a football sized cake, iced and sprayed gold complete with wings for less than a tenner, so £20 before I even charged for my time was a bit of a shock for her!

The material cost can be a shocker for people mostly because they are comparing the marginal cost to them, ignoring the cost of flour, butter, eggs, sugar etc because those things are already in the cupboard. Then they ignore the utility costs because those get swallowed up in the domestic bills. The list of things which people will ignore when ascribing 'value' to a craft item is enormous.

I do have an idea which I think will make money in the long run but the set up costs would be high. That will have to wait until my lottery win!

It is possible but you have to be a cut above everyone else and do something different.

You need to be strict with your pricing. Have a good understanding of your overheads to actually earn. Time what you are making too!

I find middle road priced items are probably the hardest to sell.

I've made paper origami mobiles to order and sold them for £75.

I've upcycled charity shop lampshades and small pieces of furniture and made a good amount doing that.

I source as much as I can for free. I'm often on gumtree or freecyle asking for any half used cans of paint. People don't want them laying around and often a half can of gloss is enough to pain table legs or a footstool. I'm honest about where I source things as I prefer the more environmental options but people are happy to pay!

Currently on a fibre and yarn dyeing binge and those I'll sell from £12-£25 depending on the fibre.

I make small felted flowers too but because I can make 30-40 of these in one go on my felting mat (I wet felt not needle felt. Much faster in multiples!) I can charge less for them. I actually had a bride custom order slightly bigger ones for button holes instead of fresh flowers because she could collect them up to use for her hoped for babies christening which I thought was ace.

I came across a box of bike gears and those are slowly being turned into clocks. I've already sold 2 of them for a large profit.

i Only knit for gifts now unless people are ready to pay the actual price it costs for a hand knit. Jumpers are £200, scarves £50, a pair of socks £60. Family think my pricing is outrageous. I think they are bonkers to believe my wages must grow on trees.

As a preserve maker, I can confirm that it costs a lot to just make jams/marmalades etc
To sell food produce you need a Food Hygiene qualification, insurance and a council hygiene rating...you also need to follow specific EU regulations about labelling, which include potentially modifying your recipes to ensure you have the right amount of fruit/sugar etc to meet those regulations.

That's before you buy fruit or sugar in bulk, or jars/lids/labels...

I think it's very similar for cake makers and other food producers etc, and the regulations only get more complex for food containing dairy/meats etc...

I think you've got exactly the right attitude betty

I make personalised cheese boards for friends/family as gifts. I make them out of huge (a metre long) slabs of 400 year old oak (which I get from reclamation yards at roughly 60 quid a metre).

I then spend 2-3 hour hand sanding it so it's soft as butter. Then I stencil lettering on it, then burn it into the wood. This takes 2-3 hours depending on complexity of design. Then I oil it and buff it 3 times over a couple of days.

I don't think anyone in their right minds would pay £100 plus ( that just covers costs at minimum wage) for a cheese board
even though it is a pretty special item.

Laurie Actually I think that that is the kind of thing that people would pay for. Food items tend to be undervalued because as Gnome said, people ignore the cost of a lot of the ingredients, but an item like that I think that you could easily sell for a decent amount.

Why not sling a couple on Etsy for £150 and see how you get on?

LaurieFairyCake I would buy them too! I have 2 piddly little cheese boards and I would absolutely buy something more substantial.

One thing I would love - and you can totally steal this idea - is a board that could run down the middle of my dining table with built in trivets for serving food. I'd love a raised bit in the middle where I can safely put dishes and they wont damage my table.

yes, preserves do not sell well at all unless you can make them on a bigger scale to reduce costs but then there isn't much point because they are a little removed from being 'homemade'. I make preserves here from foraged fruits for my own use - I can take DS to the park and pick berries/apples- but the effort I put in would need me to sell them at £10/jar so I only make them for myself because I can pick enough fruits in one afternoon to make enough jam for us for the winter I can only justify it for us because DS gets exercise, I don't need a gym membership and we get some preserves from it. Usually ketchup, jam and jellies for savoury meals.

Personalised oak cheese boards for £185 on Not On The High Street

I'd definitely do as Bogey suggests and pop a couple on Etsy. You never know!

I think if you enjoy making stuff and would be doing it anyway, then it's a good idea to look at if you can sell what you make - you are essentially funding your hobby.

A business on which your family income depends is another matter entirely. The people I know who do this spend as much time promoting as they do making. It's not easy.

And there is a nice nickable idea there of a wooden cake stand Laurie :o

Even on Etsy expensive oak cheeseboards seem to be quite numerous. And they've got reviews so people are buying them!

betty when I'm working (currently on mat leave) I make approx 4000 jars in a year (that doesn't include wedding orders or corporate christmas orders)....all still made in my home kitchen, on my hob

I do use a lot of fruit from our garden/friends gardens/allotments but do buy quite a lot in bulk too...