to think it's not really possible to make a decent living from handmade/crafty-type businesses?

[Tinklewinkle]

I really enjoy making stuff - knitting, sewing, anything that takes my fancy really.

I've made things for my home, my kids,, as gifts and as favours if people ask me.

I recently made an appliqué cushion for a friend to give as a gift, and off the back of it, I've been asked if I'd like some stalls at some of our local festival/fayre events over the summer.

I'm really proud of myself to be asked actually as the standards at these places are quite high, so as a confidence boost/feather in my cap I'm really flattered, but I'm just not convinced that once I've accounted for the cost of materials and my time, people are willing to pay the true cost of handmade products.

For example, the appliqué cushion - a couple of hours, at the minimum wage, plus a few quid for fabric, plus a cushion pad, we're looking at £20-25.

I recently made a clock and a mirror for my living room, people who have seen them have been really complimentary about them and suggested selling them, but again, by the time I've accounted for materials and time are people really willing to pay £££ for it - I had an old pallet, plus an old mirror and paint already so cost wise it was less than a tenner for a clock movement on eBay, but they took a few hours to made, and I won't always have access to free wood, an old mirror, etc. There are similar on websites like Etsy for £90/100 ish, but it just seems way too much to me - which is why I made them myself in the first place

So, AIBU to think, yes, it's a lovely dream, but when push comes to shove you can't make a proper living at it?

I make knitted baby blankets for friends and relatives. I use cashmere/merino/silk mix so the wool alone is about £50 per blanket. Then it probably takes me about 30 hours to make the blanket. My day job is as a corporate lawyer with a charge out rate of £420 per hour... So at that rate the blankets work out at over £25,000 each! Think I will keep it as a hobby for now....!

It is difficult, and I agree very much with the PP who pointed out that a lot of 'craft' fairs are basically full of crap these days. People who have bought the 'Make your own greetings cards' magazine and put together the kits; imported crap almost certainly made by slave labour... and then the organisers start offering pitches to the party planners and the knocked-off bogroll/five lighters for a pound people, because they just want the space filled, and therefore the customers this sort of thing attracts have no interest in proper handmade items.
My mother used to be phenomenally good at cross stitch: not only did she have the patience to do those entire pictures but she would also tweak the designs and improve them. She found a place that would translate a photograph into a cross stitch pattern, and she did one picture of her nephew and one of my son. But to do that commercially, even at minimum wage, would mean charging something like £800 per picture and no one would pay that. (I did once suggest that she use the photo of DS she took three seconds after he was born ie all blood and gunk everywhere and gleaming hospital equipment, and sell the finished embroidery to an art gallery, but she thought I was being silly).

I speak from long, painful experience - you have to be extraordinarily lucky or amazingly canny to make it work. I'm neither and I didn't. If you want to make stuff and put it up for sale, absolutely go for it, but don't bank your mortgage/income on it.

It's really hard. I agree about the craft fairs. A lot of those I tried to sell on had hundreds of stalls and very few customers. The stall cost £20 and I didn't make a penny! There was just so much choice and very few customers. I spent weeks and hundreds buying materials and making stuff.
It's hard to split the time between making things, advertising and selling. I quickly realised a part time job would pay better, more consistent money.

it took a great deal of my time, I worked longer hours, and actually ended up spending less time with my children!
(I tried all this when off sick from work for 3 months with stess), at the end of it, I found another job.

It is possible, but it's half actually making the things and half business/marketing /selling!

Those posters who do make - as a hobby - and sell handmade crafts to others than their friends - please please please charge properly for your time. Otherwise it devalues other similar work, and makes it harder for full time craftspeople to make their sales at the right price and earn a living.

That's the other problem - the whole 'artistic mumtrepreneur' thing. Where people get featured in glossy magazines wittering about their artistic business skills (usually twiggy gingham shit that no one really wants anyway) when they actually have a wealthy partner paying all the bills.
To make a success out of selling your crafts, you need money in the first place. Money for equipment, money for materials, money for pitch rent. To make a quality craft product (as opposed to crappy greetings cards or twiggy gingham shit) you generally need skills and expensive equipment/materials, like a loom or a kiln or a bag of precious stones. And space and time to produce the sort of goods that people will pay decent money for.
Yes, you may be fab at crochet/knitting/sewing. But you will not only be competing against mass-produced (or exploited-labour-produced) similar stuff at a tenth of the price, but also against the comfortably off or the little old ladies selling equally nice stuff that they make as a hobby and therefore charge nothing like what it's worth in terms of labour or materials.

I think it comes back to the OP's original comment that people "arent prepared to pay the true cost of handmade products." because there's nothing about something being handmade that automatically makes it better, and therefore that should command a premium. I was given a beautiful quilted blanket when DD was born and I treasure it, but only because of the love that went into it by someone I know, for me and DD. Would I be prepared to pay a lot more for say, a hand quilted bed throw, vs. one from John lewis that isnt discernably different to the naked eye? Probably not. I know the handmade one is unique but even so.

Similarly, birthday cakes. I've spent a lot in the last few years on these stunning kids bday cakes with hand made fondant figurines, but I'm just not sure its worth the premium over a mass produced one when you're talking about a bunch of kids who just want to eat the icing and Elsa's plait.

My mum, who is awesome at all crafts would probably pay more as she'd be able to tell the difference more. I guess it's like some people wuld be prepared to pay 50 quid for a bottle of wine which other people would think was as nice as a 10 quid bottle.

Please dont all hate me. Just being honest.

I bake and sell stuff on eBay. I earn a decent amount of money from the baking - I have a couple of largish regular customers. But the money I earn is my personal money, and money for extra treats . Sometimes it covers the foodshop as well. But there is no way I could pay the household bills.

I've also given up on expensive cakes. It's such a waste of almost 100 quid! I make a basic chocolate cake which I know will taste nice and stick a load of decoration on top with a fancy bunting topper. It always looks lovely.

In my experience and in a few words - not in a million years. I, and other people I know have tried it, and know the pain and frustration as people come around and admire your handiwork but rarely get their wallets out. Then they'll want the colour, size, material, shape that you dont have. I remember thinking often "well there goes another day I'll never get back"! Sadly the world is awash with tat from China and people have lost sight of the value of things.

Also do not go anywhere near shops that offer to display your goods on a "sale or return" basis - you will rue that day.
Continue to enjoy your hobby and perhaps list some on ebay and see how it goes.
Good luck ! x

superworm yes I know that the purse wouldn't have been profitable, that was kind of my point

I also enjoy making themed cakes and I happily spend hours decorating them.... but only for family! People say "you should make them to sell" - yeah right when there's a market for gruffalo, princess, pirate ships etc birthday cakes costing 200+ quid I'll be there!

I am a women's wear pattern cutter and sometimes make couture clothes.
In my spare time, I make clothes, cushions, bunting, paint pictures and lots of other craft bits. Loads of friends say 'wow, that's great, you should do it for a living'. I would probably break even at best. People don't appreciate how long it takes or how skilled it is. The mass market stuff is so cheap now.

I had a look at Velveteen. The designs are simple but desirable. This is the way to go, the more intricate and expensive, the less profit is to be made.

Yesterday I was in my local haberdashery shop. A lady was buying a zip. She said to cashier, 'I went to shop and they said £13 to change the zip in my trousers. It's outrageous, the trousers only cost £20.' Her trousers were probably made abroad in a factory along with 10,000 other pairs. The zip replacement is in this country...so...Price of zip, time to pay someone to unpick and sew new zip at min wage, overheads of shop, time of person who greeted her in shop etc. They probably only make £3 profit.

The answer to 'people don't want to spend money on what I make' has a couple of variables:

1. Are you asking the right people to buy your stuff? What if it's the market that's wrong? How can you access the people who do buy the sort of thing you make?
2. Is what you make unique enough, good enough quality, packaged right? If not, can you change what you make?

You might want to make x product and sell it at y community craft fair, but that's no way to make money.
I know someone who went from sewing things to sell at car boot sales and making zero profit, to selling exactly the same stuff via a contact at a local private school, upping her prices accordingly, and doing pretty well.
Also someone who knitted things to sell - they were fine but she could never charge for the hours of work. She got some bags printed and wrote the pattern for a kit: it's the exact same thing, just unmade, and she can charge virtually the same for it. It helps that she went to art school so it all looks great. She was featured in an online magazine around Christmas time and raked it in.

Also tell yourself over and over: the person who complains it's too expensive is not my customer. Because they aren't in the market for what you're selling: they want cheap and they won't change their minds. You want customers who have money to spend if you're selling crafted goods - they will never be essentials.

Thanks all!

The more I read and think about it, the more I think it'll stay as a hobby I enjoy.

Some of the things I've made are a bit of a labour of love so the thought of doing all that for a couple of quid makes me want to cry

I remember a couple of years ago making blankets for my DDs. They were themed to them - their favourite things, colours, etc and took months. A mum of one of DD2's cub friends asked me to make her one. I refused, but she kept on so I told her the materials were about £100, without my time - she couldn't believe it could cost so much.

Im not terribly business minded either. I just like to waft around making pretty things

I'm also a terrible fly by night, I constantly chop and change my mind, get bored and start something else. I'd never finish anything.

Sorry, x-posted.

I'm sure there is a market out there, but I'm not sure I really halt the time, of inclination if I'm completely honest, to find it.

FB isn't the place round here - everyone wants something for nothing. Etsy looks good, I've bought a couple of things from there.

I don't think craft fairs either. A lot of the fairs round here seem to be full of people selling cheap knock off make up, cheap jewellery, etc.

I know I'm looking at it all wrong - I know how much works goes into stuff but I kind of look at things and think why would I pay £100 for that clock/£45 for that cushion when I can make it myself. I need to find people who would pay, but can't make it

I think that the problem with hand crafted stuff is that the only people who recognise the true cost of an item i.e. the quality of the materials, how long it takes to make etc, are fellow crafters, who can make the item themselves! I'm guilty of doing this myself.

I have a very small craft business on FB (I keep meaning to get onto Etsy!) and I just about break even when I make a sale. I do it just as a hobby though and as long as I'm not losing money I'll continue doing it. I won't do any more craft fairs though, truly soul destroying. All of the preparation required to fill a table to have people glance over and move on... so depressing! I mostly sold cards at the fairs I did, which were a last minute addition since I happened to have some spare time and materials in the days before my first fair, and even then I heard some people muttering about the price and how many cards they could buy in The Card Factory for that money!

Craft fairs are a bust, though. Anyone with access to a church hall, a tea urn and a few six-foot tables can put on a craft fair. They don't care who they get through the door, so long as they pay their two quid to get in. You need to go for the customers who enjoy spending money

I went to a 'craft' fair recently. Some great handmade things, some tat and 2 stands selling Forever living Aloe shite.

The trick is to find something that takes up very little actual dedicated time but still sells well. My mum has a (Hungarian) friend who knits Aran sweaters in yarn that is nice quality but not scratchy wool while watching tv in the evening. She can turn out two per week. They are easy to price as you can get similar in shops. She sells them online. They disappear fast. She has been doing it for years now.

Many years ago I had my own business making and selling bridal tiaras and jewellery, cards and stationery, etc and dabbled in other similar items that I made from scratch. A lot of that was bespoke orders and I was on the verge of giving up my part time job as I was making a good wee bit. It was very hard work though and involved a lot of pricey wedding fairs and events.

Then all of a sudden there seemed to be an explosion of people starting to craft which led to saturation in the market, and the credit crunch and on top of that an infux of cheap mass produced crap from oversees. Within a year I had gone from super sales to virtually nothing. I kept getting told by potential and existing customers alike that they could buy the same thing or similar for a lot cheaper, even though mostly these were inferior goods. I tried many different things to save my business including lowering prices but it was useless.

Today I only really do it as a hobby to give as gifts and sell to family and friends or previous customers who always come back. I sometimes do a few local craft fairs at Christmas time but I don't make a lot of money from this now. Pointless in an over-saturated market and people not willing to pay the price for the time and skill put into handcrafting products.

I also used to work in a large craft chain's local store doing workshops and teaching people all kinds, but only got paid minimum wage for that.

I make very little profit on themed birthday cakes- and I would make none at all if I factored in my time at a reasonable rate. I make them occasionally because I enjoy doing it. I do make a profit in the cakes I supply to cafes, but I can churn them out by the hundred while mumsnetting! But I am very lucky to have a couple of regular large customers. I know exactly how many I need to make of which type so I have no wastage. When I used to try to sell direct to the public I made mor per cake, obviously, but often had stock left over. Or sold out, so people were disappointed and didn't come back.

Definitely hard to make money this way as others have said, especially when to reflect the true cost of time and materials the things to sell end up being quite expensive compared to mass-produced stuff.

I do know someone that seems to do very well from her hobby, she makes little bits and bobs with names on, xmas tree decorations, bag hangers etc and sells them for £1 or similar and they fly off the table at craft fairs etc. We've been at some of the same craft fairs where I was trying (failing) to sell my husbands photography greetings cards and artwork and she sold tons, and while each item was only £1 or so, it quickly adds up.

And with this kind of thing I actually disagree that you can't sell stuff that people could make themselves. Loads of what she sells is not rocket science, just a bit of felt with a name sewn on and I've often thought I could do it myself, but people buy them like crazy. As we weren't doing that well with the cards and artwork, we jumped on the "cheap and lots" band wagon and made hama bead bag danglers on bits of elastic and charged £1 or £1.50 for them and they went like hot cakes. The key was we tapped into the obsessions of the moment and made Minecraft designs and Frozen ones (actually just snowflakes but we had a poster showing Frozen to put you in mind of Frozen), worked a treat, kids wanted them, and parents didn't mind buying as it was only £1.

I'm pretty good (tho I says it meself) at making my kids themed birthday cakes, and lots of times people say I should go into business selling them. But i don't know how bakers make any money either because by making intriciate icing designs takes me ages (though I suppose you get quicker if you do it a lot) plus you have the cost of the materials, and if you're selling cakes you probably have to use organic ingredients etc whereas I just use basics flour etc. Tastes the same but people paying lots for a cake would want to know you were using decent ingredients. I know people pay crazy money for wedding cakes, but I can't see if making money on birthday cakes really.