To think that a 12 year old should NOT have a MacBook

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It's her birthday soon and she will be 13 all she wants is a MacBook I've said she can have a Windows laptop... It's only for farting around on, what's the point?

And I am not the only one on this thread to praise the Mac for 'keeping on going'. The average yearly cost of my Mac has worked out far cheaper then the yearly cost of what I was spending on Windows laptops.

Well I'm happy to counter your anecdotal data with my own. Two Windows laptops in this household and both going strong, one 5 year sold, one 3. Both workhorses.

If you want to play computer anecdotes, I have four Windows PCs, the newest dates from 2010 and the oldest is over a decade old. None of them have suffered the problems you've described

If you are getting viruses to the extent that several machines are being rendered unusable after a year and beyond repair, then you have been incredibly unlucky or are falling to perform basic maintenance tasks or take sensible or straightforward antivirus precautions.

Macs aren't immune to viruses (fewer Viruses get written for Macs as there are fewer of them) but they do exist and you should be aware of them.

Nor is Apple's reptation for 'quality' and 'reliability' all that. Hardware failure rates are behind Toshiba and Sony Windows PCs. (Given that Apple don't have a budget range, that's pretty rubbish).

Just as an aside, if you want her to develop useful workplace skills, go for Windows. Most workplaces don't use Macs.

coralpig However, if you can't afford it a Windows one will do her fine- more than. She certainly doesn't need a MacBook but they do last longer ( in my experience) are less prone to crashing and you don't need anti virus software

Very wrong. Plenty of mac viruses / trojans etc floating around. They crash at least as frequently and if they do need fixing cost far more.

Everysongbird - I think the same about iPads and i think children who have either are rich, spoiled or both...YANBU - and no offence to anyone, it's just a personal view

Is being rich ie. able to give your children Mac products now an insult?

gooru - IME Windows laptops need replacing every year

Why? I'd genuinely like to know. Is it because the man in PC World told you so?

Each one got viruses, bugs, would crash repeatedly and so on, until they were simply unusable

Sounds like user error to me. A clean install of the OS gets rid of viruses.

stillmedusa Only one of my kids has a Windows laptop and I have had to replace it every 2 years

Why?

They update well, are incredibly stable because their software is built FOR their hardware

I'd love you to explain this to me. Limited hardware options are available for Macs, but suggesting that Windows is unstable because it's can run on either Intel or AMD processors is ridiculous. Modern drivers are excellent. The instruction sets for AMD and Intel's 64 bit CPUs are near identical. Ensuring cross-platform compatibility is what makes Windows excellent and costs them a fortune.

BillSykesDog - Just as an aside, if you want her to develop useful workplace skills, go for Windows. Most workplaces don't use Macs.

I agree with this but on the wrong premise. Mac seem to be on the rise and genuinely not sure what will happen in the future. Really, if you can use one OS, you can use the other. If you want to train someone to work in IT then get them a computer with Windows and Linux. SQL, coding, 3D work are mostly done on Windows machines. Businesses are slowly shifting to Mac but, as I said, the trend may not continue.

@OP - My Dell ultrabook is amazing and my work-issued MBP stays in my desk drawer unless using it's unavoidable. I think they cost about the same. My desktop is Windows and is a little Trigger's broom and is a very high-end machine. Never had a virus. Rarely have any issues with it whatsoever. My 8 year old netbook is powering on through too. Needed a new wifi card and RAM last year. About £20. A Mac wouldn't have been worth repairing.

People who suggest Windows machines need replacing annually are either deluded or lying. The hardware Apple uses is available for anyone to make their computer with. Pretty alu shells are readily available from other manufacturers.

Mac win in the fashion stakes and that's why your daughter wants one. She doesn't need it. No one does. The school my son attends is a Mac school. Children from year 4 need their own machine although there is 1 iPad and 1 MBP per 3 children. Teachers are issued with Macs. A large part of this, I suspect, is to show parents what a fancy school it is and where the fees are going! Pure fashion.

Have you considered a Chromebook? Easy to use. Excellent parental controls and often have the Mac-esque look.

(IT professional for over a decade - fucking hate OSx).

Why? I'd genuinely like to know. Is it because the man in PC World told you so?

What's with the sarcastic attitude? Errr... no, not because the man in PC World told me so, actually. And I'm neither 'deluded' nor 'lying', thanks. Believe it or not I'm an intelligent woman who is perfectly able to recognise when her electronic devices are past the point of repair.

Tell you what, it's funny how Windows fans like to make out that Apple users are either a) thick or b) have been indoctrinated into some sort of cult, but when it comes down to it, it seems like the Windows users are those with a chip on their shoulder. Absolutely no need for the sarcasm and attitude directed to Mac users on this thread!

No chip on my shoulder chum. Just have no time for nonsense claims that Windows laptops only have a lifespan of 12 months.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder about Macs (yes I do, they're a pain in the arse) Mac users.

I think they've been a little conned and fallen for the marketing claptrap, but I really don't especially care. We bought my eldest a Macbook Air (refurbed) for his birthday and we have an Apple TV, iPhones and 3 iPads. Each are overpriced (IMO) and I prefer the Android box and Samsung tablet.

I'd genuinely like to know how you knew your electronic device was past the point of repair. For example, motherboards (the main circuit board in a computer) can be fairly cheaply repaired or replaced. A new or second hand processor won't cost much. Dying RAM (a common issue), well under £20. Reinstalling the OS would take an evening in front of the TV and ensures a virus free computer. A can of compressed air to clean out the crap sucked in through the vents is often enough. If the thermal paste on the CPU has gone hard (causing thermal shutdowns), a new tube costs a couple of pounds. None of those fixes are difficult and can easily be done on a non-Mac.

My 11.5 yo DD is after one too.

She is already well kitted out with an iPad and a Windows laptop (courtesy of indulgent GPs) so I've told her if she can save half towards whichever one she wants I'll make up the rest.

I'm anticipating that taking a couple of years and tying in with her starting GCSE's which is fine by me - she's very into tech, does coding, blogging, builds website and does music production on her grandads Apple kit, so I know she'll get the use of it, but it's too expensive for her not to make some contribution IMHO.

Oh here we go. I have used Macs exclusively since 1994 when the company was moribund, when you got laughed at for having a Mac. Nothing to do with being conned, a sheep, a fashion victim or any other daft argument you'd like to toss out. We have a houseful of Macs, the oldest 20 years old and still going. Struggling to think of one person in the family who has a Windows machine older than 3 years that works. I hear them complain about them all the time, because they know I don't use them so I get my ear bent.

Use what you like, I couldn't care less, but don't talk crap about what you don't know.

Oh and still waiting for a virus.

Interesting thread 😊 Light the touch paper & run OP 😁 It's almost like you wanted an Apple v Windows bun fight . < no bun emotion!

'Should not have'. It's not drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, knicker skimming skirts, high heels or the like is it? It's not going to do her any harm, so where does 'should not have' come into it?

Still, while we are all here you can help me decide what to do if you like 😁

I've always had Windows laptops (current one is at least 9 years old) but I haven't used it much since getting the iPad mini 18 months ago, the iPad is fantastic and I'm not entirely sure how & why I coped for so long without one 😁 But it's a tablet, not a laptop, so it has its limitations.

I'm not sure whether to get a Windows laptop or a MacBook and which of either?!

I need it for storing photos (lots and lots and lots of photos).

Needs to be easy to upload photos from my camera and I need to be able to transfer photos from the iPad to it.

Spreadsheets (love excel, not sure what Apple equivalent is like).

I'm familiar with Word, no idea what the Apple equivalent is like.

I need the ability to connect to things manually (sat nav to do updates, talk talk diagnostics, downloading from memory sticks etc).

Disc drive would be handy, but I'm sure I could get the data put onto a stick if necessary.

Loved XP, hated Vista. No idea about Windows 10.

I'm unsure what the Pros & Cons are of each option, then of the choices within that option (IE no idea which Mac or Windows laptop to buy).

So if anyone fancies helping me decide, that would be great 😁

Heck, why the vitriol?!
As I said I'm a Windows girl, right down to my phone. I have a Windows tablet which is so much better than DD's Ipad, and iCloud drives me nuts. But...We've been very impressed with DD's second hand Macbook, in terms of quality and reliability. Upgrades are painless, unlike Windows 10, which I've had to tinker with to get it running right on our laptops ( one only a yr old) and my 2yr old phone won't upgrade to W10 at all.
DD has been to 3 primary schools, the one with Windows constantly has trouble with their HP laptops and software, they spend a lot on maintenance and replacements, not helped by the LA forcing them to buy from a certain company and pay over the odds. PTA funds were often used for laptops.
The 2 Mac driven schools rarely have issues.

ExtrahotLatte - Okay, I'll bite.

Get a Windows machine.
You'll get better performance for your money. You need a large HDD for all of your photos. You can buy a 2Tb 2.5" HDD (the right size for a laptop) for about £70. God knows what that would be as a Mac option.

Apple versions of Office aren't quite as intuitive and featurewise, MS try to keep the Mac version behind the Windows in terms of brand new features.

Mac and Windows machines can connect to phones, iPads, Sat Nav etc. 3rd party software is usually better for Windows, eg. Garmin software hates OSx.

My little camera can connect through wifi to an iPad or Windows machine easily. The bluetooth connection to the MBP is a little patchy. Most machines will have an SD slot for a camera card or connect with bluetooth or wifi for newer cameras.

What's your budget? Is portability or battery life important or will it spend most of its life in the home?

Re. the operating system. Mac is a pain in the arse. Windows 10 is great. Very few people have many (if any) negatives to say about it. Backwards and forwards compatibility re. drivers and external devices (like Sat Navs, cameras) is excellent.

We got dd a Windows laptop and have just replaced mine.

Personally I would prefer a Mac because I have an I phone and it would be easier for my business if they were compatible. However I am not willing to spend that amount in a laptop.

Personally I think Yabu to say a 12 'shouldn't' have a MacBook. If a 12 year old has one, I don't see anything wrong with it of the parents can afford it. Yanbu to say your dd can't have one.

My windows laptops have lasted about 5 years on average. Macs would have to last at least twice as long to be the same cost per year. I had one years ago and a lot of websites were unusable on macs. I assume that this is no longer the case?

I am also skeptical about the claims that macs last so long because iPhones are well known for becoming crap and slow when they are a few versions old. when I changed from an iPhone 4 to a mid range android phone a couple of years ago I was astonished at the improvement and how poor the iPhone had been in comparison.

To me Apple seem to have too much power over their users to the extent that it's a bit of a Stockholm syndrome controlling relationship. I can see that the products are good, but the company's attitude to it's customers stinks.

I don't particularly agree with many of Herecomethepotatoes' reasons. But my end advice would pretty much be the same.
Also subscribe to Office 365, you'll get 1tb of online storage, which is useful for added photo backup.
Personally I prefer Win 8.1 ( and am probably the person on the planet to do so!) I have rolled back my tablet because I'm not that happy with W10 on it. I've also spent quite a lot of time providing free tech support to relatives who have upgraded and had problems ( as has my OH).
But if you get a machine with W10 already installed it should be fine.
If I had ££ I'd go for a Surface Book.
But equally I've had no problems with DD's Macbook, it connects to everything easily, DD has a Windows phone and has no trouble using Microsoft online storage on it. The word processing software is fine, can't comment on spread sheeting, though she does that as well. I would go to PC world ( don't buy!) and spend time playing with the display machines they have Macbooks and Windows, so you can compare.

I am also skeptical about the claims that macs last so long because iPhones are well known for becoming crap and slow when they are a few versions old. when I changed from an iPhone 4 to a mid range android phone a couple of years ago I was astonished at the improvement and how poor the iPhone had been in comparison

DH has found this with his iPhone and iPad, but the same doesn't seem to be true for the Macbook.

HereComeThePotatoes (< that needs explaining 😁). Thanks for your reply. I suspected you'd say Windows if you replied 😁

I have an external TB but we don't get along very well. After the debacle with the first external HD, I took the new one to 'a computer bloke' to set it up for me because the lap top & it fell out so badly. I wanted it as a second hard drive, he backed it up so it can only be used to restore from. Sigh.

I'm not sure if my camera can connect using wifi or not, but I think possibly. As long as I can download from either the card or cable it's fine.

Portability & battery life are not important as it will stay at home.

Budget, again not important, but given what I'll use it for it seems a bit silly to spend mega bucks on it, but I'd rather pay more for something that will last because I loathe & detest trying to replace them...too many decisions!

I have a new iPhone too (if that influences the decision at all)

Curren having the iPad & the iPhone I am thinking about a Mac for the compatibility issue too. (Also the low level OCD I have which makes me prefer things that are 'sets/matched', but I try not to let it over rule on things like this). I don't mind spending the money if I get what I want/need, I'm just not sure I will as I really need Excel or a good Mac version of it.

BarbaraOfSeville. I'm not too fussed on the 'cost per year' but it's an interesting thought. Most of my friends that have Macs have very old ones (10 years old) and are only just starting to feel their age, getting 'the wheel of doom'. I've on,y ever had good customer service from Apple.

CallerMorven. Thank you for your reply too. Why would you go for a Surface Pro? I went to PC world (staff are utterly clueless in both of our local ones) & played about, but just ended up more confused and their in store information is woeful. I felt I needed to narrow it down before I went, then basically just go to check out the 'feel' of the ones I was considering. If you wouldn't buy from PC world, where would you buy a Windows laptop from? Has your DD used Excel? If she has, does she find one better than the other? Or at least dies she find the Mac one ok compared to Excel?

I took the new one to 'a computer bloke' to set it up for me because the lap top & it fell out so badly. I wanted it as a second hard drive, he backed it up so it can only be used to restore from.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean but he didn't do anything that can't be undone. If there isn't anything on there that you mind erasing then you can simply format it. If he used it to back up your laptop then you can go through it, keeping anything you want and deleting the rest.

Most latops from the main guys (Sony, Dell, HP etc) are pretty similarly specced.

300-£500 will get you 8Gb RAM (plenty), 1Tb HDD and an i5 processor. Remember, a fancy feature such as a touch-screen or 2-in-1 means some other aspect will take a hit.

ASUS X555LA 15.6" for £429 - lighter and smaller.

TOSHIBA Satellite L70-C for £449. bigger screen. Does make a difference.

TOSHIBA Satellite C55 if you're on a budget £229

Refurbished Dells (direct from them) are great.

ps. Those big shops (PC World, Comet and the like) are fine if you know what you want. Don't get their extended warranties, anti-virus or any add-ons.

There isn't much between most of the main manufacturers models within a certain price bracket so feel of it, colour etc plays a big part.

For a slightly more spendy option, Lenovo Ideapad 500. Shiny silver too, to match your Mac stuff.

re. compatibility between iOS and Windows machines, iTunes works fine on win and OSx.

If it is just for browsing and mucking about why not try a chromebook

www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/laptops/best-chromebooks-top-5-chromebooks-in-the-us-1233696

I am so useless with tech that I have hardly understood a word of the argument! Am on my trusty Hudl, despite getting a shiny new laptop/tablet thingy for Christmas. Had an iPhone briefly but went back to Android. Work offered me an old Macbook but it was beyond me to get it to do stuff so it sits in the drawer! One thing is that DD got the latest iPhone, put it in her bag of books for uni and the screen cracked in less than 24 hours. Most of her friends use iPhones with cracked screens. I have dropped my trusty Android phone several times and it now as a slightly scuffed case but otherwise fine.

DH has a Lenovo ( red, very smart lol), it's fine, we bought from Tesco, so we could use club card points and at the time he was working fir them, so we had a discount.

Surfacebook is very spendy and more than you'll probably need. But I like it for similar reasons to a Macbook, it's made by Microsoft, so is designed for their software. It has beautiful build quality. I also love the Surface pen, which is pressure sensitive and works beautifully with the touch screen. The screen is also fabulous.