It's that time of year again... just use the right of way!

[jacks11]

I've posted before about people wondering through our fields (with or without their dogs), leaving gates open and their rubbish lying about. There is a well maintained right of way they could use, but no- they really seem to prefer to ignore this (and yes, it is well signposted) and use the more direct route through the fields. Not so bad during winter, but can be a pain during spring/summer. So it's starting up again and I am fed up.

There isn't much I can do about it, as the right to roam laws mean the public have the right to do so. In principle I wouldn't mind, but practical experience is that this is increasingly becoming problematic as so many people just do not seem to observe even the most basic responsibilities such as ensuring gates are closed behind them, not leaving litter and keeping their children and pets under control. It's not everyone, but a significant minority are really ignorant and irresponsible.

In the past week, we have had no less than 3 gates left wide open. There is livestock or horses in most of the fields but luckily no significant damage was done as not many escaped.

I have had to ask one family to take their rubbish with them rather than leave it (neatly tied in a plastic bag) and then watched gobsmacked as the mother later attempted to put it in our outside bin- she seemed surprised when I pointed out it was not a public refuse bin and to take it with her.

A couple were trying to let their small child "pat a lamb"- I hate to think what would have happened had they not been stopped from doing so. Same family also had to be asked to stop feeding the ponies (sugar cubes, apples), and father said "oh but she is enjoying it so much"- apparently I am "a miserable killjoy". They are not the first. This is not a petting zoo! Several of my neighbours have had similar- parents wanting their children to play with lambs (even calves!) for some reason. I have even had people (usually with their children) wandering into the yard to have a look at the horses and the lambing pens. I am genuinely gobsmacked that people feel this is appropriate without asking permission.

I already have padlocked the majority of the gates now to prevent them being left open. I have had to have signs warning of livestock in the fields etc. It annoys me that I have to do so. I am now going to look into methods to make it more difficult to get into the fields as it is getting beyond a joke.

Seriously, I am surprised at the number of people who just don't seem to know how to behave. Not sure what can be done though.

One of my friends has a farm and has one of these sorts of signs on a gate that lots of people want to try and walk through as its a more direct route than taking the footpath.

She doesnt keep the bull in that field though, she keeps it well away from any place where thick members of public are likely to try and walk. Not that the bull would bother with you anyway as its as thick as 2 short planks.

I'd plant lots of poison ivy in the fields.

OK given the largely reasonable collection of people on here I have a question to the landowners of which of these 2 options you would prefer me to take in future following something I still haven't found out the answer to since almost this time last year. We were walking with a couple of friends and our dogs in an area we didn't know but had duly purchased the OS map for. We had gone probably 3 or 4 miles and only had half a mile or so to go (relevant as to why turning back was not really an option) got to a field full of sheep with the right of way being an actual maintained path. All dogs put on lead before entering field, gate closed etc we are relatively countryside savvy and respectful. On this particular occasion the sheep were all congregated around the actual path and one of our friends dogs was showing a bit too much interest in them for us to be comfortable. we opted to leave the path and walk round the perimeter of the field sticking tight to the fence, rejoining the path at the gate out, thus giving a good 15-20m between us and the sheep rather than walking through them, only to be met by the somewhat unhinged I presume farmer at the gate out going absolutely ape shit as we had strayed from the path. No dogs fouled, no litter was dropped, we merely applied what we thought to be common sense for he good of the livestock. What would landowners prefer we do if encountering this situation in future, stick to the path and potentially though not intentionally worry any sheep, or stray from the path in what we felt was a respectful decision?? We regularly walk through grazing land locally but everywhere seems to have fenced off path to seperate livestock and walkers so this was the first time we had come across this situation. Prepared to be told we were actually wrong, but would just like to know what to do next time.

Walking up a hill with a few sheep is a lot different to trampling through a lowland farm Itsall

Ah, sorry. I took "There really needs to a change in the law to make it an offence to enter land which has livestock on it without invitation." too literally.

And most people who go hillwalking are not arseholes.

Apart from those who leave rubbish under a rock and think that is OK I think though with hilkwalkers etc the pressure is a lot less intense. Less people per sq mile...

If you've not been on the receiving end of the appalling behaviour of the many people who now think they have the right to do what they like on farmland you won't understand the anger and upset they cause.

I have and it's horrific. My favourite are the dog owners who assume that the "Lambing. Dogs on Leash" signs can't possibly apply to them because their dog is "well trained".

I think that to a large extent it's proximity to civilisation that is an issue? Perhaps the legislation could be that right to roam does not apply in lowland areas within 10k of a parking space, and in those areas public footpaths must be used? And landowners should be under no obligation to provide parking spaces, and ditches should be well maintained by roads

Depending on where you are though you can get exemptions. There is a massively popular wee hill near me, and the landowner has in conjunction with SNH and local authority (I think, someone official anyway) built a fenced path through the fields (barbed wire on both sides) which you are told to stick to until you reach the base of the hill.

Didn't realise you were a farmer / landowner itsall. You say you've had trouble with dogs and sheep so you will understand the upset and anger for people like the OP.

I think it is more the proximity to people who couldn't care less than a proximity to "civilisation" as you call it. The majority of the twats causing trouble in our part of the country are anything but civilised. They are all about knowing their rights and aren't interested in the idea of responsibilities.

Stay on the path lampygirl. If your dogs are on tight leads and you are walking not running the sheep will move away before you get too close. Not surprised the farmer was less than pleased.

Didn't realise you were a farmer / landowner itsall

I'm not. I have been involved in land management though.

I think it is more the proximity to people who couldn't care less than a proximity to "civilisation

I kind of didn't phrase that in the clearest way. I meant that I think in many cases the sort of people described in the OP wouldnt want to walk very far from their car, thus restricting access to areas in close proximity to parking/public transport could be helpful. I was being a tad tongue in cheek though...

I see Itsall

Iirc the Scottish access code says that if you want to cross a field with livestock in it you should consider going around the perimeter fence rather than across the middle of the field.

Ps a small point Anthony but the land reform act and access legislation was introduced by the previous lib /lab coalition not the snp

Antony we got that the sheep might move, but at the time when some of them may have been with lambs we didn't want to cause them any unnecessary stress at all. I know enough to keep my dog away from sheep and friends the same, but have no idea how they would react if walked straight towards as there were 4 people and 5 dogs, as we have always previously been able to avoid the field completely or been in seperate fenced off areas. If the advice is to walk towards them then that's what we will do. Thanks. Cows and horses we always walk calmly through on the marked route but there seems to be a lot more importance placed on dogs and sheep so it threw us a bit.

Is there any reason why in some areas the paths seem to go through the middle all the time? Round by where I live they always seem to be fenced along the edge, or at least run round the edge which seems more sensible to me.

My PIL's neighbour has a very blunt (but according to him so far very effective) sign that explains that he will shoot dogs that are off lead bothering his ewes on the gate nearest to the ewes in lamb. He mentions the Dangerous Dogs Act and the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act on the sign. He hasn't actually followed through on the threat so far. Would that sort of sign (if the acts apply in Scotland which I don't know about) help at all. (And obviously it goes without saying that YANBU. Not in the slightest).

As a mountain biker, I'm always massively envious of Scotland's Right to Roam laws. But people should realise that the right to roam also comes with responsibility - I always stick to the bridleways and green ways, close gates, stay well clear of livestock, and seeing litter makes my blood boil (you managed to get it to that point full, why leave the empty wrappers and bottles once you're done - surely they'll be lighter now?! And if I'm walking the dog, he goes on a very short lead around roaming livestock (or even walking next to fenced off fields where there is livestock), or we find another route.

And seriously, who the fuck pets a calf? Mother cows are pretty much Britain's most dangerous beast, and will quite happily murder any muppet that they perceive to be threatening their young. Apart from hoping that most people wouldn't want to cause animals distress, you'd think that a bit of self preservation would kick in!

Sorry am I right in thinking people can come on to your property and roam through it???? Please someone explain this to me. What rights do landowners have? I wouldn't dream of going into private land. Or going within 50 feet of livestock. What is wrong with people?

Have now had six foot high metal fence corridor installed through the fields. Fence is dog proof and person proof so there is just the narrow path that they have to stick to.

I've seen this an increasing amount - sad that people have to go to this length to protect their livestock.

However as a keen walker farmers that install electric fencing and block footpaths and force you to go miles around the edge of a huge field (when the footpath per the OS map goes straight through) fucking loss me off. As are the ones who remove signs and allow styles to be totally covered and hidden by trees etc.

wanna

Yes, in Scotland. This is because of legislation called the Land Reform Act, otherwise known as "right to roam". It gives the public the right of (non-motorised) access to most farmland/estate land/mountain areas.

I really feel for you OP. The sheer entitlement of some people is gobsmacking, it really is as though they view the countryside, and other people's homes and livelihoods, as their own personal amusement parks.

A close friend of mine has a small farm and keeps a particular breed of pony. She lost a foal last year after a family with off-lead dogs walked straight through her field. The right of way is signposted and fenced off but they chose to climb the gate and go through the field so the kiddies could stroke a pony

Whois

I understand that not keeping the rights of way accessible isn't great, but I have to say that I am becoming more understanding of why that is. Yes, it is only a significant minority but they are causing significant inconvenience, damage and expense to landowners and I can see why many would rather take the rap over the knuckles from the LA, and fix it after that, than keep it accessible. I am really fed up with the problems we've had and it is getting worse every year, despite my efforts to keep the right of way accessible and well signposted.

I should not have to create a 6 foot corridor across the land, padlock gates and so on. Some of my neighbours have been making the ditches surrounding their fields large, using more electric fencing and so on because of the problems they've had.

BTW I'm not saying there aren't some landowners who won't comply with the right to roam rules on principle rather than due to problems they have had.

You can't blame the SNP for this! Even pre 2003 Scottish access regs have always been very open.