To think CHAMS is shit

[shockandawe]

To not even see my ds, and close the referral without even meeting us.

I really fee like not sending my ds to senior school in September. He has such noticeable tics that I really fear the issue will be a whole lot worse once at secondary.

Aibu? Don't mind to hear if I am.

I think the idea that parents in this situation are fighting both the system and the child's illness/problems is absolutely spot on. It is a truly dreadful situation.

I would have to say that YABU to say that CAHMS is shit, as in generally and everywhere in the country. It certainly seems to be a postcode lottery as to whether you get good service or not, but where we are, the CAMHS has been very good. It was difficult to get to see a psychiatrist initially but since then it's been plain sailing. My DD's psychiatrist is really good, very knowledgable about ASD and regularly goes to my DD's school to observe the young people there that are under her care.

My DD will soon have to transition into adult mental health services and I'm dreading it as from what I've heard they ARE shit.

I think that, like every profession, there are fantastic therapists and there are shit ones. We've experienced both, including when we went privately.

I guess that people have areas of expertise and my "shit" ones could be great for other problems. I guess it also depends on how well different personalities "click" too.

Spending money at early intervention must surely save money long term, it's such a shame that people can't access the help when it is needed.

Why wouldn't anyone read these notes/letters?

I have no idea. As I've said upthread, I can't really speculate as to what another therapists motivations or intentions are just because we work in the same field but they really should be explaining to you and your child their rationale for any clinical decisions.

It's not unusual for parents to try to show me extracts from their child's private diaries, text messages, emails etc. It can be problematic as most of the time the child has no idea the parent has read these things and the parents ask me not to tell them, which obviously makes it very difficult for me to address the issue with the child or act on the information in any meaningful way. So, my standard response when a parent produces such a document is generally "is there anything in these letters/diaries etc that suggests that your child is at risk of harm or anyone else is at risk of harm? If not then I don't need to see it". If there is no safeguarding or risk issue then I would discuss with the parent how they might go about improving communication with their DC so that they don't have to rely on obtaining information in this way.

In your case though, it does sound as though the content of the letters suggested your child was a risk to herself and possibly other family members so that should override any concerns around confidentiality as the safety of the child is paramount.

Prescribing lorazepam as a short term measure for a young person who is experiencing intense episodes of distress or agitation is not unusual and can be very helpful if used correctly and alongside regular therapy. The young person should be ebcouraged to develop and utilise other coping strategies as well though. In my experience these medications are not given lightly so your DD must have been very distressed.

I'm sorry you've had to go through this

Obs - you sound so much like me. If CAMHS can't help us, who the hell can?

Mishaps - it feels like I'm in a big room with tonnes of doors in the walls and each one slamming shut before I can get to them. The desperation, the fear of the future, the frustration, the anger and the unfairness of it all - I take a moment to have a little cry and "wallow in my misery" for a bit, then plaster on a smile and go to work. DH is the same. Both of our health has suffered because of all this.

Yorksha - oh, thank you for your answer. I wish someone had just spoken to us instead of flat-out refusing to look at them or listen to me read extracts that concerned us. Yes, she made references to wanting to kill us, and herself but we were brushed off and treated like we were making a big deal about her 'venting'. I was very, very scared for our own lives and fully expected DD to try something.

They could give me no answer when I asked them at what point they would take these 'ventings' seriously - perhaps when our bodies were found?

I'd actually quite like to find out whether CAMHS is shit in our area or not! School EP recommended getting GP to refer as a tier 3 referral as it would be quicker than her referring ()

GP referred.

Letter came as tier 2 referral. I rang up to accept anything they'd offer but also to point out that under their own guidelines that DS adopted, significant behavioural problems already seen EP and had CBT and mindfulness training.

My call went to answerphone so I left a message. It took weeks for them to call me back (no problem I understand that they're busy) and when I replied to their call was told they'd deleted the referral because I hadn't replied within the 2 week period noted on the letter. I pointed out that wasn't possible as (by their own admission) I'd called on XYZ date and they'd actually called me back (and I had the name of the person who had called).

They acknowledged this and were a bit confused but were adamant that there was nothing they could do - computer says no" - it looks like because they didn't call me back within 2 weeks the computer knocked us off the list!?

So back for another referral we go. I'm not optimistic - I suspect we will get a "well you're coping" type response. But yes lonely and hard - though DS not in crisis at the moment so all is much calmer.

Tried to post on Saturday and will try again now. It is absolutely scandalous that CAMHSis so underfunded; if adult mental health services are the 'Cinderella' of the NHS what on earth does that make CAMHS? Is so agree with the idea that parents are fighting both their child's condition and the professionals that are supposed to help them. Add the child's school into the mix potentially and parents feel beleaguered, exhausted and hopeless. Not to mention the hefty dose of guilt and fear that comes along with all of this.

The time taken between referral and assessment or treatment is terrible. That time is our children's childhoods slipping away between our fingers. The impact of a child with MH problems upon the family is huge too. I sometimes feel that I am slipping into an abyss as I deal with the daily struggle. Our family is disjointed and broken at the moment; I just try to get through from day to day.

My dd waited six months for an appointment with a CAMHS psychiatrist, ( all locums in our health authority). She had about a twenty minute appointment, ( I wasn't in the room for most of it as she insisted). Upon my return I was told that she didn't require meds, ( agreed), and that I should access CBT, ( already done that ten months previously). She had masked all the way through and looked like she was perfectly ok. I was told to get her to meet with her school counsellor, ( she's a school refuser and hasn't attended school since April 2015). They told us she had generalised anxiety disorder. She also has a diagnosis of ASD made privately. CAMHS thought the best thing to do was discharge her from their care as she had told them that 'she didn't want to come back to CAMHS'.

She's thirteen by the way.

"CAMHS thought the best thing to do was discharge her from their care as she had told them that 'she didn't want to come back to CAMHS'"

It's incredibly frustrating for parents but if a child is 13 and Fraser Competent they have the right to refuse treatment and there's nothing that CAMHS or any service can do to force them to accept it unless they're detainable under the mental health act. In cases like your DC (where there is an unmet mental health need but the young person isnt willing to engage) I always agree a "cooling off period" with the young person, so I won't close them straight away but will give them a couple of weeks to think about whether they want CAMHS support or not and tell them that I will close them if I haven't heard from them in that time. About 70% of the time I get a phone call before the 2 weeks is up saying they have changed their minds and want to engage. Very often with teenagers its about giving them an opportunity to back down without losing face. They're unlikely to engage if they're dragged to an appointment they don't want to be at but if given time to come around and make the choice to access support on their own terms they're much more likely to accept it.

Hi yorksha. We weren't given that cooling off period, but i did have along chat with someone from CAMHS who had talked to me about dd's case. She felt that we would be back at some point. I've since found an excellent private clinical psychologist who will hopefully be able to make a difference to my dd. I'm not sure if anyone will ever be able to get her to go back to school, but being able to go away overnight again may hopefully be a possibility.

Waiting, that's great that you've found some support for your DD and I hope things start to improve for you all soon. School refusal is really tough but, for what it's worth, I've worked with kids who were out of school for years and are now back in full time education so it is possible with perseverance and the right support.

This is a very good description of working in camhs amidst cuts:

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/may/02/crisis-in-childrens-mental-health-nhs-insider-speaks

"Discharged from services as would not engage" - v. frustrating sentence I've experienced from both camhs and adult services, all the more frustrating when it simply wasn't true. How do they measure this mystical "engaging"?

They have failed my 14yr old dd horribly.
She lashed out and hit me in front of them, which they then said they didn't see, put her on antidepressants without my knowledge even though they had it on record she had taken an overdose, and I'm constantly walking on eggshells not to get beaten up in my own home.

^^ this. exactly yhe same happenmed to us.

I fucking hate them and what they have done to me and dd.

and this.

Thanks Yorksha, that's encouraging. She's certainly not disengaged with education per se, she couldn't tolerate the environment that she was in. She will occasionally ask about going to new school, but then frightens herself and back tracks again. I just try not to put any pressure on her about it. It will be such an enormous leap if she does try again but there will be lots of other ways of engaging in education as she gets a bit older, I just hope that she can find something that she will enjoy sufficiently to give her the impetus to have a go.

You know just today my best mate was here and I cried and shook on her, all because of DD and how I feel I can't cope anymore.
I am so vulnerable in my own home, and so is dd, but they refuse to acknowledge it at all.

Last night I got told to, "fuck the fuck off", in such a venomous manner, all because I politely asked for a phone charger, today she went out without telling me for the 6th time in a week.
I've been on diazepam, tramadol, volterol gel, heat patches and wearing a support belt because I hurt my back putting the bin out almost three weeks ago.
I didn't dare ask dd as the day before she attacked me because I asked her to hoover.

Thing is, I truly believe there are major anxiety/asd issues here, but they won't listen to me and dd is refusing to talk honestly to anyone.
CAHMS have terrified her, they have almost broken my family, I'm not sure how much longer I can continue until I have to say she can't live here anymore.

Just read the article Twisted, it just fills you with despair doesn't it?

We're not alone then!

We have met some great people at CAMHS, but by god we've been pissed around.

Years of asking for assessments, diagnosis from a national centre of excellence in meurodevelopmental disorders that is dismissed and continually referred to instead as 'mild ADHD'. Being told that as I'm an 'only child' I am actually percieving bad behaviour. This has done me in so badly I'm on anti-DS. I actually had to start a diary for myself to look back on and remember the meltdowns so I know I haven't 'perceived' them as bad behaviour.

Have taken the Diagnosis assessment to a privat psychiatrist and got the meds prescribed privately now because they wouldn't fucking give them to him.

After years of pretending your child is fine you finally ask for referral and get a kick in the teeth SO often.

We're not alone then!

We have met some great people at CAMHS, but by god we've been pissed around.

Years of asking for assessments, diagnosis from a national centre of excellence in meurodevelopmental disorders that is dismissed and continually referred to instead as 'mild ADHD'. Being told that as I'm an 'only child' I am actually percieving bad behaviour. This has done me in so badly I'm on anti-DS. I actually had to start a diary for myself to look back on and remember the meltdowns so I know I haven't 'perceived' them as bad behaviour.

Have taken the Diagnosis assessment to a privat psychiatrist and got the meds prescribed privately now because they wouldn't fucking give them to him.

After years of pretending your child is fine you finally ask for referral and get a kick in the teeth SO often.

DecaffCoffee How do they measure this mystical "engaging"?

To "engage": Agree enthusiastically with everything they say, don't point out any inconsistencies or mistakes/misunderstandings, go happily and willingly along with any treatment they offer (don't mention difficulty of any side-effects or other issues caused by treatment), and then at the end say "Thank you I'm cured!" and skip off into the sunset.

Only read the OP, but they did that to my son. Closed the case before they saw him. Was not happy at all but nothing I could do about it apparently.

My teen son just got a referral to them for OCD, severe intrusive thoughts and depression, marked as urgent but she said they will likely downgrade it, but I'm worried they won't see him at all.

Panorama tonight at 7.30pm was about failing child and adolescent mental health services, worth a watch. Highlighted the case of Sarah Green who died in Priory hospital after 9 month inpatient stay 100 miles from home. Minister didn't have figures for child deaths in mental health hospitals, a campaign group (?inquest) gave figure as 9 deaths. Managed to get info from freedom of information requests. Scarily given privatisation currently underway, they say that private providers do not have to respond to FOI requests.

To "engage": Agree enthusiastically with everything they say, don't point out any inconsistencies or mistakes/misunderstandings, go happily and willingly along with any treatment they offer (don't mention difficulty of any side-effects or other issues caused by treatment), and then at the end say "Thank you I'm cured!" and skip off into the sunset.

I find this quite patronising.

If we at CAMHS expected families / young people to agree with our understanding of their situation 100% we would simply not be able to work with any of these families. It is completely expectedand it's what we do day in day outto try to reach a formulation & treatment plan together with the family / young person, based on what we think and based on what they think. If it comes only from usbut also only from the familiesno treatment is going to work. It has to be a joint decision from assessment to treatment and until the end. I find it very hard to believe that there would be clinicians who would force their views on the families.

On the other hand, families also have to want to cooperate / work together, otherwise again we reach a dead end.

Put simply, to "engage" means to turn up. When someone is discharged and the reason given for the case being closed is that they are "unwilling to engage", in my experience, this means that they have missed a number of planned appointments. Either that or the young person turns up but refuses to say anything at all. I have never heard the term used in any other context.