To think CHAMS is shit

[shockandawe]

To not even see my ds, and close the referral without even meeting us.

I really fee like not sending my ds to senior school in September. He has such noticeable tics that I really fear the issue will be a whole lot worse once at secondary.

Aibu? Don't mind to hear if I am.

It was a GP that did the initial referral to CAMHS who initially decided that DS wasn't severe enough so NFA'd the referral, GP neglected to tell us of CAMHS decision and it caused a delay of 9 months.

OP, Occupational and Physiotherapy would be a better option for issues with handwriting and other related issues.

The problem here is that each area CAHMS works independently and they offer very very different services in different places. Its an area where the NHS really is a postcode lottery.
CAHMS have been very good for me (but even though we are regularly there, I only discovered there has been a restructure through a free magazine for the area - I don't know what this means).

etherthedragon, family support workers (is that what you mean?) do not work in CAMHS. They usually work in the community, in children's centres etc. Some of them are excellent but they are not clinically trained & have no specialist knowledge of children's mental health. Their role is more supportive, nothing to do with the work CAMHS offers. As I said, some of them can be really good but it varies, and you shouldn't be expecting mental health support from them.

There seems to be a lack of Tier 2 services and a lack of services for those who need more than Tier 3.
With family therapy, I have seen a close family totally reject the advice given, which was totally obvious to anyone observing, as absolutely rubbish, and useless advice. Sometimes people just do not want to hear what would really help.

PhilPhilConnors They changed what we said, wrote it down in a different context and have presented it to us as fact, and when we pointed it out to them, they acted as if we were going mad. (Isn't that gas lighting?)

I, and many others, have experienced the same in adult services.

What I would like to know is why do they lie? Rather than admit the person needs certain treatment but services are unable to provide it, they dismiss the person as unsuitable/not ill enough.

Any MH staff here able to answer that?

After all, we keep being told services are shit due to cuts - which means there should be an awful lot of people with notes that detail they need help but services can't provide it. I've yet to come across one...

Elementofsurprise, I have never come across such blatant lying as some of you are implying here. On the contrary, I have come across many many colleagues who keep cases open for years & keep working with particular families, despite the fact that each week they have to add another case to their caseload & thus need to be closing cases. I can't preclude the possibility that there are colleagues who lie about the support needed or not needed, but as I said I have never seen anything like that. Believe me, CAMHS professionals know very well that families often need a lot more than can be offered & are usually open about this / about the waiting lists etc.

Cleaty, I think what you say is also true in many cases. Families (as all of us, in a way) may not always be open to hearing what a professional is suggesting. That sort of resistance is not at all unusual and in a way is to be expected. It's not always easy to tackle & change long-held practices / patterns within family & it can be easier to blame the professional that they have no clue etc.

That is not to say of course, far from it, that there are no bad professionals who get it wrong. It happens all the time, we all get it wrong.

stilllovingmysleep So, in your experience, will professionals actually write in the persons notes that the help they need is unavailable?

Ds camhs nurse is fantastic, we may be stuck waiting for the full assessment - not her fault the system is over stretched - but she is there for support every step of the way.

Yes, why wouldn't they elementofsurprise if that was the case? We often make recommendations, for example, that a particular case has been flagged up for a social care referral which may then not be taken on. Obviously I can't comment on teams I don't know, only on teams I do know and even within teams there are so many differences between different clinicians.

Often, when a case is closed, it may clearly be written that further help may be appropriate in the future & of what kind etc. Also, a case isn't closed just arbitrarily, without the family's agreement.

stilllovingmysleep Yes, why wouldn't they elementofsurprise if that was the case?
I don't know why, but it seems to happen - mainly in adult services, to be fair. I wondered if there was some rule or other that meant they weren't allowed to allude to service cuts.

On a related note, it also seems to be impossible to find out what the mystery criteria for services are!

Also, a case isn't closed just arbitrarily, without the family's agreement.
Cases must be closed without family's agreement. Surely a family couldn't insist on seeing you even when you've decided it's not necessary? Or would you keep them "on the books" but not offer any appointments?

My CAMHS are rubbish, it currently a 2/3 year wait for an ASD assessment. If you go private (like we did they wil,tell you you've paid for a "label") anyone who has ever spoken to my son thinks HFA except CAMHS because they've not seen him yet ! He's 13 and has had a full time 1:1 for the last 6 years whilst we get pushed from pillar to post ........

I think with us it was the sheer denial that there was anything wrong at all.
So for eg, if we said "if ds2 has access to knives he will threaten us with them, once he repeatedly stabbed a door trying to get to ds1", they wrote down that ds2 was curious about knives, no mention of the danger he was to himself and others, then made out we were being very dramatic when we queried that because after all, that's what we said.
Also ds2 threatens suicide during low points, both when he's angry and when he's calm (I spoke to our GP about this and she was very concerned). The feedback we had from CAMHS was that the threats were only happening during meltdown which was normal. When we pointed out that we were concerned about it happening when he was lucid and calm, she flat denied that we had said that and refused to amend her notes.

We also have concerns about ds2 at school, he completely masks then goes to,pieces at home, he will rant and meltdown about all the little inconsequential things that have happened during his day.
He has PDA so struggles with demands which make him very anxious. School are not supporting this at all, because they can't see it. The CAMHS therapist has said it's important to make the approach consistent between home and school, but instead of supporting the strategies that we use with great success, she was insistent that we use stricter rules and boundaries, all of which mean that ds2 cannot cope (hence his diagnosis), and has back to back meltdowns and is extremely violent. When we pointed this out she suggested we weren't engaging fully with services .

stilllovingmysleep - thank you for the reply. I understand that the therapists need training whilst on the job, however, it was an almost continuous "I'm not in that day as I'm away training". By doing this training, my DD was left with little help and support, and eventually gave up with them. CAMHS didn't acknowledge the severity of what was going on with DD and had little knowledge of what she was eventually diagnosed with.

Family therapy felt like we were in some kind of film, where, at the end, our 'performance' would be reviewed by the audience of two other people. They spoke amongst themselves - but aloud so we could hear what they had gathered from our session - and it was a summary of what had been discussed. We would wait for any golden nuggets of advice, but all we got was "these parents really love their daughter" etc. Well ... yes, we do but TELL ME WHAT WE DO TO HELP HER!!! We stopped going to these sessions as we found that DD was using our fears/upset/sadness to manipulate us - just like you don't do couples counselling with an abusive spouse.

All I can ask is that you really listen to what the patients and their parents tell you and please follow the recommended treatments ordered by your own psychiatrists. We have had to give up as it has cost me my health, nearly cost me my marriage, my DH is utterly bewildered and it is not a happy home when DD is around.

Another thing which CAMHS said was that I shouldn't worry about her self-harm marks (reeeeeallly bad ones) and that she would be able to wear short sleeves and shorts. She may be able to wear these things, but doesn't mean she should especially when passersby recoil in horror (one of the things that upsets her greatly is not being accepted by people) when they see them.

To me, this advice was counter-productive and only served to put her in a situation where she would be rejected by people again and again and again. She would then go back to CAMHS for help to make her "acceptable" and they would give more unsuitable advice. So round and round we went.

And the statement that because she self harms she won't try to kill herself - so wrong! She did try and very nearly succeeded.

Thedayibroke - yes! You've summed up family therapy perfectly!

PhilPhil - I'm so sorry you have been in the same situation. The family therapy sessions honestly felt like a farce. We were told we had to had to "sit quietly and listen" to what the two reviewers had to say and I felt like they were taking the Mickey. If they really wanted to help, give us some information, some tools to deal with our tormented child. I didn't need them "to teach Grandma to suck eggs" so to speak!

The therapist would always speak in a low, gentle, sing-song voice, almost patronising. This voice was used only during the family therapy sessions, as soon as we were done, she would speak properly.

When I would say how I felt about what was going on with DD, the family therapist who was conducting the session would turn to DD and say "So how do you feel about what your mum/dad has said?" She had already made her feelings about us and our family abundantly clear at home, and didn't need a session to give her a platform to abuse us further. They really failed to understand what was going on and that family therapy was not what was needed. Family therapy equipped her with ways to hurt and manipulate us.

DD was always sullen and very aggressive after these sessions and we were at the end of our tether and totally drained!

You can't just blame the underfunding. That's not just the problem.
There are people who work there who have these stereotypical draconian views of what ASD/other disabilities are.
This has been shown by countless stories/ examples on this thread and other SN boards, where the parents are disbelieved or other cases of negligence.
People who try to defend CAMHS simply can't explain that, justify that, or blame it on funding issues.

philphil Im so sorry to hear that, my DC is very very similar, I also have to child lock anything sharp/cably etc.

and CAmhs, are the shittiest SHITS ever. they ALWAYS turnb around what you say and make YOU out to be the cause of your childs problems.

behavioural probs because of Disabilities and medical conditions are NOT a bad upbringing.

yet time and again, the judgy criticising making me out to be a bad parent.

I hate them. nothing but problems.

tolsd them in the end where to go, and DCs MUCh calmer (will never be cured, but at elast theres no more 'prodding and poking') not being literally interrogated by the gestapo, nor am I continually umder the third degree.

SHIT. that's what they should be called. same as social services

What are these draconian views OBS?

Thedayibroke, your experiences are uncannily similar to ours!

Ds2 only went to one session, he felt he'd really opened up, as he spoke a tiny bit about how angry he felt most of the time (the first time he spoke about it to anyone outside of immediate family), he then felt let down because she didn't try to help him.

stilllovingmysheep, no that's not what I mean, here when we were going this 10 yrs ago the first tier of CAMHS were called child and family therapy workers, they visited the child and family in their own home, essentially to make detailed notes on the child's history and to observe the child in the familiar surroundings of their home, to advise on strategies and they would also attend meetings at schools etc to gather more information before deciding whether to refer on to tier 2, ie Clinical Psychologists.

It sounds like some here simply did not want to engage in family therapy. Family therapy is tough. It doesn't work if you do not want to engage.

PhilPhil - your poor boy . I hope you all come through this .

I fail to see the point of family therapy. If it is therapy by talking about your problems, then we would have been better off taking a bottle of wine over to a friend's house and talking there. I would have received advice on what to do, too.

Our CAMHS have been of little help for ds2 (with an ASD and mental health difficulties).

You can argue lack of resources and to a certain extent I am sure that is right. But our experience is duplication of effort - we have had no less than 7 assessment interviews for ds2 with different CAMHS professionals. And lack of communication with other agencies who DID have the manpower available to support ds2. The latter's problem was that his mental health issues were so far out of their knowledge they were wary of doing anything in case it made matters worse.

I think this is the most frustrating thing that CAMHS seems to confuse assessment for help. As a parent I want to know what I can do to help my child. To be told at one recent assessment that "you are the expert in your child" is not exactly helpful when you have gone to them and explained that you do not know how to help your child.

At one stage ds2 was prescribed anti-anxiety medication. But even this was a disaster because it turned him psychotic. In hindsight there were physiological signs that he was reacting badly which I believe CAMHS should have picked up on that all was not well. With this experience it did not surprise us to read the reports this year that there is an enhanced suicide risk of children on anti-anxiety medication. Perhaps the side effects it had on ds2 are not as rare as thought. Clearly, however, valuable these drugs are (and to begin with it did reduce ds2's anxiety) children prescribed these drugs need careful monitoring.

Soon after this debacle ds2 was discharged from the service because we were told they could offer no help as he was to anxious to engage at appointments and, unsurprisingly, we were unwilling to try a different medication.
The sad thing is that at his first appointment with a CAMHS professional he was able to engage and cooperate. Only after the passing from professional to professional and the deterioration in his mental health as he was left without support did he develop such anxiety. I firmly believe that if he had early intervention then his eventual outcome would have been good whereas now I can not see him ever being able to live independently.

I do not blame individual CAMHS professionals. I am sure they do their best as we do for ds2. Instead the problems seem to be systematic in all agencies that are supposed to help children in need - social services in our experience is probably even worse, education probably a bit better but they simply do not have the experience to deal with children with serious mental health issues.
As a parent I would like to see less assessment and more support and the only way to achieve this is if the agencies start talking to each other and start working together instead of playing pass the parcel with our vunerable children.

Cleaty - family therapy is tough, but what is the point of it if it doesn't give you answers at the end of a session. I don't want to hear a summary of what has been discussed parrotted out back to me without an inkling, a suggestion, an idea of what to do to help DD. To say "some here simply did not want to engage in family therapy" is horrid . How do you know how we felt? Family therapy may have helped some, but it certainly didn't help us and actively harmed our relationship with DD as she now knows what buttons to press to inflict maximum hurt.