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to be furious at being so openly lied to by a solicitor and confront her about it

107 replies

darbylou · 07/04/2016 16:29

Long time lurker first time poster here.

I'm a first time buyer and I've had an offer accepted on a new build property (small developer) the developer offered to pay for both my mortgage advisor and solicitors fee if I used his chosen ones, a solicitor and an advisor he'd been working with for years and who get things done quickly, I didn't like the idea of this but due to all the expense of moving couldn't really afford to look a gift horse in the mouth, the mortgage advisor is amazing and has everything in hand.

All was going well and I was set to complete tomorrow, I'd contacted the solicitors weeks ago to leave my contact number and introduce myself as the developer had already instructed them, they said they'd get back in touch when they needed anything from me. I received no contact until two days ago when they sent me a corrupted email with 3 files I couldn't open at 5pm. The day after I contacted them and they said they'd a lot of forms for me to complete. I went in filled in all the paperwork and was told completion may be delayed but only by a couple of days and work was well on the way with the case.

I received another call today. It was the solicitors wanting to confirm a few details on the form, when I asked how it was progressing she said 'oh it'll be a good few weeks until exchange then two after that until completion' when I questioned it she tried to deny that we had spoken the day before and then told me she'd received instruction on the 1st and then later on said it was on the 5th. I told her I'd already sorted a landscaper and a plumber and a moving firm and was just about to end my tenancy and she said 'do you really think these things happen overnight, I have a lot of work to do you know, I was only told about you today.'

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/04/2016 20:03

The English system is different from the Scottish system as it is the seller who instructs and pays for searches but I think somewhere along the line there has been huge cross wires

What I have said above is correct. The Scottish system is far superior but both buyer and seller will generally pay a lot more.

memyselfandaye · 07/04/2016 20:10

bearbehind The OP said she spoke to the solicitor weeks ago not a week ago.

alltheworld · 07/04/2016 20:16

Surely the solicitor sent you an engagement letter setting how what work they proposed to do, fees, terms and conditions and how to complain?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/04/2016 20:21

It doesn't sound as if any of the preliminary work needed to take the OP on as a client has been done.

It's not possible to tell whether the solicitor was holding off doing that until she got the offer/ titles from the builder or if she has got them but has not for some reason processed them.

Floggingmolly · 07/04/2016 20:22

If you mean the seller instructs and pays for searches under the Scottish system, Lass, you may well be correct in that but you were not correct in the way you phrased it...

bearbehind · 07/04/2016 20:25

Sorry OP, totally misread the week / weeks ago part but I'm still Shock that booking a gardner took priority over completing any legal documentation for purchasing a house.

Floggingmolly · 07/04/2016 20:27

Can you clarify, op? Have you done anything beyond contacting the developer's solicitor and giving her your "details" what details??

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/04/2016 20:30

Yes the seller instructs all of these and pays for them. It's not "I may well be correct". I am correct.

To be honest the English system horrifies me, but as I say, conveyancing fees are generally much higher in Scotland.

I don't do residential conveyancing except in the odd special case but the last one I did a couple of weeks ago was £1500 plus Vat for a Land Registered property with no mortgage involved. I see English solicitors offering £220. My firm would not be interested in that sort of work.

Floggingmolly · 07/04/2016 20:33

I hope you have nothing to do with drawing up contracts, Lass... You managed to say the exact opposite of what you meant back there.

BMW6 · 07/04/2016 20:36

But OP - surely you would need to study the results of the searches that the solicitor will send you BEFORE you go ahead with exchange, never mind completion?

What if the searches shows up potential for flooding? Confused

Have you had any paperwork? At all?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/04/2016 20:37

Oh for goodness sake , as if no one in the entire history of Mumsnet has ever made a mistake on a post. To be honest I forgot I wasn't posting on FWR where the regulars know I'm a Scottish solicitor.

runningincircles12 · 07/04/2016 21:01

Hi OP. Here is a perspective from someone who used to be a solicitor (not conveyancing though).

-As others have pointed out, the developer does not instruct the solicitor, you do. I presume the developer is the seller, so you would DEFINITELY not have the same solicitor. However, I would expect the developer to pass on your details. Even if you called to introduce yourself, that might not have been construed as a formal instruction, although take this up with the firm. You would also have had to attend the office with proof of ID and address for money-laundering purposes. Until proof of ID is received, the firm cannot act for you.

When the solicitor receives instructions, you should receive (so you should have this) a retainer letter to confirm the instruction and set out who is dealing with your work and the cost and likely timescale. Read this carefully, although I would guess you don't have this yet, as the solicitor says she was only recently instructed.

The job of the buyer's solicitor is to investigate title, carry out all searches connected with the property, liaise with the seller's solicitors. This does take some time, but you absolutely should not complete or even exchange without all of this being done.

You would never complete without having exchanged contracts first. You would have been sent a draft and asked to send in a signed copy. Before all of this, you would have had a report with the local authority searches and any other searches such as environmental ones.

You should never give up a rental unless you have exchanged and have a firm date for completion. Otherwise you risk being homeless. Try to negotiate with your landlord to stay a bit longer, though depends on whether he or she has found new tenants.

You cannot (or should not) exchange without a mortgage offer in writing.

Well in advance of exchange, you would be asked to pay the deposit monies to your solicitor's client account. The solicitor will pay that to the seller's solicitor on exchange and the mortgage company will release the balance to complete a couple of days before completion. You definitely cannot exchange/complete without having paid this money.

Most conveyancers are not qualified solicitors but they do usually have a Legal Exec qualification, although some might be unqualified paralegals. They usually have a very heavy case-load. They will not be chasing you- you chase them. Not excusing the behaviour of yours but for the conveyancer, your particular purchase will not be at the forefront of their mind. It sounds like miscommunication, probably because you were under the impression that you were completing but did not realise what this entailed.

You can change solicitors but to be honest, you are unlikely to get a Rolls-Royce service anywhere unless you pay hefty money. For a small property, it's not worth it. Stick with this firm, keep chasing them and as long as there are no hold-ups from the seller's end, all should hopefully progress once you have the search results.

runningincircles12 · 07/04/2016 21:12

LassWiTheDelicateAir, was just going to apologise for repeating some of what you had said now that I read the full thread. Just to clarify for others, in England and Wales, the buyer is always responsible for paying for searches (although in this case, the developer has agreed to pay for legal fees, but this is an exception). The seller simply has a duty to deduce title, but all responsibility for investigating the property falls on the buyer.

Also agree that the Scots system is better- much less chance of gazumping and gazundering....

ManneryTowers · 07/04/2016 21:27

Most conveyancers are not qualified solicitors but they do usually have a Legal Exec qualification, although some might be unqualified paralegals.

Running. I am sure it was not the intention to belittle Legal Execs but just to clarify that a qualified Chartered Legal Executive is also a qualification of its own excellent merit with the same responsibilities as that of a solicitor and will have studied all core subjects of law, not just property. They are also very likely to have more practical experience than some conveyancing solicitors. They are not to be confused with 'Conveyancing Executives' which seems to be a label given to paralegals.

I'm not a Legal Exec but do wish to make the distinction!

lorelei9here · 07/04/2016 21:38

I guess the OP is off sorting stuff.

We have all been first time buyers OP but I am puzzled by people who don't get in and engage properly. You should get yourself informed and knowledgeable before engaging a solicitor. I would suggest, if you can, to slow down on this one and get your own solicitor. I just used the cheapest High Street one and she was conscientiously explaining everything all the time, so don't imagine you have to pay a fortune to a posh company to get good service.

runningincircles12 · 07/04/2016 22:44

MannerTowers apologies, definitely no offence meant at all. I think someone had said upthread that they wondered whether this person was qualified at all. I didn't mean that they wouldn't be able to do the job. I just didn't want the OP to get even more concerned if she discovered that the person dealing with her matter was not a solicitor.

I agree, Legal Execs have a long and rigorous training. And you are right, I was referring to licensed conveyancers anyway. Although when I bought my house, a Legal Exec did my purchase and she was excellent. I think (albeit that I wasn't there) that this is miscommunication rather than incompetence either. Just didn't want to see "and now I find out she's not even a qualified solicitor" type post.

darbylou · 07/04/2016 23:13

Thanks everyone for all the advice,

I've been so organised with everything else with the sale I completely took my eye off the ball here and regret it. With the mortgage I'd done so much research I knew exactly what was happening next and what I needed to do.

To clear a few things up, the developer is paying all of the solicitors fees and the £100 stamp duty, I've already had a survey done. The solicitor had been informed by the developer that I'd be instructing her when he was discussing another matter, the phone call I had with her was to do this, she told me she was already 'on with it' and not to worry about anything she told me at this point that we'd be completing on the 8th and she'd be in touch before to arrange the paperwork and transferring the deposit. I know I should have been more active in chasing her.

PP mentioned lack of advice, they were right I'm council estate born and bred, it's not an excuse but while everyone in my family is very proud that I'm buying a house they've never done it before so don't know what to expect either.

It was also asked why I'd need a plumber and gardener, the developer is only small and the houses are only cheap but aren't turfed, I'd been given a bonus at work and decided to get the garden sorted soon after I moved in. I need a plumber to fit me an outside tap so I can water my lovely new grass.

Someone said I wasn't ready for home ownership, I don't think that's a fair comment at all. There's a huge difference between owning a home and dealing with the hassle of buying one.

OP posts:
curren · 08/04/2016 03:30

PP mentioned lack of advice, they were right I'm council estate born and bred, it's not an excuse but while everyone in my family is very proud that I'm buying a house they've never done it before so don't know what to expect either.

What's this got to with anything? I bought my first house at 19, in very similar circumstances. You have to find out what you are doing.

I don't understand how the searches and survey have been done, without you paying. Are you sure they have been done?

And again how did you think your were going to exchange if you haven't given a deposit,

darbylou · 08/04/2016 03:44

Curren, I was only agreeing with a PP. and as you have already seen I've said it's no excuse and that it's my own fault.

I didn't say searches were completed. I had a homebuyers report completed at an extra cost when my house was valued.

I also explained that I was under the impression I was going to in to transfer my deposit on the 6th.

Is there a reason to ask the same questions that have been put to me and I've answered fully?

I've admitted I've made a mistake and that it was through my own naivety for not chasing them up and being fully aware of the process, what else do you want me to say?

OP posts:
KittenOfWoe · 08/04/2016 03:59

Gutted for you, OP. Horrible mix of hindsight and misleading advice, it seems. Hope it's sorted asap, you must be pretty upset.

treaclesoda · 08/04/2016 04:35

This is slightly off topic, but is handing over a deposit a new thing? I've bought a house twice and never had to pay a deposit. But the last time we moved was over ten years ago, so I'm wondering if things have changed?

lorelei9here · 08/04/2016 05:53

OP do check on the searches now. My solicitor gave me a checklist of stages and let me know each time a new stage was complete.

lorelei9here · 08/04/2016 05:54

Treacle did you have 100% mortgage?

runningincircles12 · 08/04/2016 06:56

Treacle, you may have had a 100% mortgage so that the deposit monies were paid by the mortgage company. However, in a residential sale and purchase, the norm is for the buyer to pay a 10% deposit to the seller on exchange. You could agree with the seller not to receive a deposit or to receive a lower amount. Or it might be that you exchanged and completed on the same day so that the solicitor just sent the full balance. The norm is to pay a deposit though and definitely for a first time buyer it would be.

OP, that is harsh of others to say you are not ready for home ownership. The reason you pay solicitors and the like is that ordinary people do not know the process involved. You should be able to rely on them, but in this case there was a delay and you have been let down. The good thing is that at least you know now for the future.

Also, for the future, don't commission any tradespeople until you have at least exchanged contracts. The seller could pull out at any time before exchange without repercussions.

I hope it all goes well for you and that you complete swiftly.

tangerino · 08/04/2016 07:24

Treaclesoda, I've never paid a full deposit either- have always exchanged on a promise to pay basis. It's definitely possible, nothing to do with the mortgage- you just agree it between the parties.