to be furious at being so openly lied to by a solicitor and confront her about it

[darbylou]

Long time lurker first time poster here.

I'm a first time buyer and I've had an offer accepted on a new build property (small developer) the developer offered to pay for both my mortgage advisor and solicitors fee if I used his chosen ones, a solicitor and an advisor he'd been working with for years and who get things done quickly, I didn't like the idea of this but due to all the expense of moving couldn't really afford to look a gift horse in the mouth, the mortgage advisor is amazing and has everything in hand.

All was going well and I was set to complete tomorrow, I'd contacted the solicitors weeks ago to leave my contact number and introduce myself as the developer had already instructed them, they said they'd get back in touch when they needed anything from me. I received no contact until two days ago when they sent me a corrupted email with 3 files I couldn't open at 5pm. The day after I contacted them and they said they'd a lot of forms for me to complete. I went in filled in all the paperwork and was told completion may be delayed but only by a couple of days and work was well on the way with the case.

I received another call today. It was the solicitors wanting to confirm a few details on the form, when I asked how it was progressing she said 'oh it'll be a good few weeks until exchange then two after that until completion' when I questioned it she tried to deny that we had spoken the day before and then told me she'd received instruction on the 1st and then later on said it was on the 5th. I told her I'd already sorted a landscaper and a plumber and a moving firm and was just about to end my tenancy and she said 'do you really think these things happen overnight, I have a lot of work to do you know, I was only told about you today.'

OP
I won't give you a step by step (because for a start its v dull!) but have you even provided ID docs to this solicitor yet or money for searches? If not then they won't have even put searches in hand. Expect approximately three weeks for all searches to come back, maybe two more for all enquiries to be dealt with, then a contract to sign, then you'll need to give the solicitor a deposit to exchange, then all the money they need by the date of completion, which will be agreed on exchange. PP is right, most lenders do need some notice of completion once exchange has taken place, though not always seven days. Then completion on the agreed date, and you get your keys.
This doesn't allow for any vagaries in how long developer's solicitor answers enquires etc or complex stuff.
I appreciate you are saving your legal fees, but you have no obligation to use these solicitors. To be frank I would want someone independent who had no vested interest in getting work from a developer client so potentially putting the developer's needs above yours.

The developer can't instruct YOUR solicitor for you. It is YOUR solicitor. Sounds like it's the developer that has messed you around and that with the greatest of respect, you really need to do some research.

Augusta - It wasn't me paying for the solicitor it was the developer so I wasn't expecting a discussion about fees.

Kirinm - everything else is done, even the developers solicitor is ready to go.

We exchanged on a Friday and completed on Monday, with only the weekend between it.

I have worked in an EA office and seen the odd same day exchange and completion. Everyone hates them though.

Have you got proof that you spoke to her before? Would it be on your phone bill or call log on your phone?

When we bought our first house I had someone at our solicitors office ring up and tell me I had to pay for something we'd already paid for. She insisted we hadn't, I argued that we had, but in the end I made the payment a second time just to get things moving.

Then went home after work, found my receipt, rang them up and complained, and they refunded both payments and covered that cost themselves.

I also kept notes of who I spoke to and when I spoke to them, or even calls I made that were not answered. Everything with a date and time, name if possible, what was discussed and agreed.

That way, if I had to chase anybody, I had a complete log to fall back on. It's not too late to start one OP.

That log came in very handy when we sold the house and bought another one, as part of the chain had involved a really horrible solicitor who made a big fuss refusing to give us certain information. He was acting for the people selling to us, and nearly stopped the whole thing.

Then when we came to sell, he was acting for the person buying from us and demanded that same information and I was able to tell him where in his own files he could find it from last time.

He'd been making a real stink about it, and our solicitor was sick of him, so she took great pleasure in telling him he already had the information he was in such a hurry for us to give.

But the developers solicitors may well be ready to go - they don't have searches to undertake or a mortgage to organise. Everything is very simple from their end.
TBH it sounds like your developer has clocked your ignorance about this process and led you on a bit about the length of time it would take to complete the purchase and get in.
You CAN go from accepted offer to completion in 28 days (I've done it) but it involves the solicitors having a rocket inserted up their arse on a daily basis. And mortgage finance sorted already.

Neither your developer nor your solicitor has covered themselves in glory here, but likewise it is not their job to educate you on how the house-buying process works and the necessary steps that take place. These things are pretty easy to find out via google - suggest you do a bit of reading up before you start booking tradespeople in!

That's crazy! Your solicitor is instructed by you to act in your best interests and protect you against any dodgy doings by the developer. If the developer has instructed and paid for the solicitor then they are working for him, not you. Have YOU signed a form agreeing to the solicitors' terms and conditions and instructing them to act on YOUR behalf?

Although it's technically possible to exchange and complete on the same day, I've never known it happen and if you are buying with a mortgage, the mortgage company requires 7 days between exchange and completion to make the funds available.

Sorry, that's complete shite.

OP, I'm not sure you're ready for home ownership. Developers are sly and do nothing that isn't in your interests. You need to know what the process is and how it happens, and what to do if things aren't right. Never mind gardeners, you might need months of trades coming back and fore to deal with snags and major faults. (Been there, got the t-shirt.)

Augusta - It wasn't me paying for the solicitor it was the developer so I wasn't expecting a discussion about fees.

Did the developer tell you he'd pay disbursements as well as fees? There's local searches, stamp duty if the property is over £125,000 (and that's quite a hefty figure - e.g. around £1,500 for a property worth £200K), land registry fees etc. It all adds up to quite a lot.

This completion date, was it agreed in writing wth the solicitor, in writing?

If not then she is not to blame. It's hard to say without full information but tbh it sounds like you haven't taken the right steps here.

I don't want to make assumptions so if you post what you have done so far, what you know about conveyancing etc then easier to tell. But don't book anything that relates to the place until you are in. I have exchanged and completed in the same day, with a mortgage, but I had flexibility on my rental so it was different.

Do you have to exchange and complete in the same day? If you have a strict notice period you need to stick with then I'd separate them and also make it a bit later to allow for things, you don't know what searches will bring up for example.

If he's paying the solicitor, is he lying for he surveys/stamp duty etc or will they be billing you separately? Have you exchanged yet? It sounds like you are very much in the dark but to be fair to the solicitor it seems she isn't working for you and has barely had any contact from you. You need to ask all these questions to the solicitor and ask her/them what the developer is saying.

Paying for the stamp duty and surveys I mean, not lying!

Isn't using a solicitor instructed by the developer a conflict of interest on the solicitor's part? And you don't even seem to know exactly what costs he's covering...

It is entirely possible to exchange and complete in a day, I did it - about 2 hours apart. You do need to have done all the ID stuff first though before they do anything else so she should definitely have told you that.

Flogging I think they were recommended by the developer, rather than instructed. I still wouldn't use them though - the solicitor won't want to piss off the developer and lose that stream of work!

We exchanged and completed on the same day no problem at all - although very stressful not knowing if you are moving or not until the actual day!

Flogging, I'm puzzled it's still allowed because it's such a conflict of interests, but it is allowed.

I'd also be interested to know exactly which parts of the fee the developer is covering.

I exchanged and completed in one day but this was after weeks of back and forth between estate agent, solicitor, seller etc, plus sending IDs paying for searches, completing questionnaires, sending completion funds AND the solicitor only just received the funds from the bank in time. Have you paid any money yet?

With regards to the solicitor it might be worth getting independent advice from someone with no vested interest. I bought my flat from a vendor who owned it from new. He used the developer recommended solicitor at a hefty discount. Only when he came to sell did he find out lots of info was missing or never received by his solicitor and therefore he had to pay for it again to complete our sale. In short, it cost him a small fortune in duplicate information and indemnities.

Not saying this will happen to you but for peace of mind it could be worth getting some independent advice.

I've bought twice in England and both times exchange and completion were on the same day. Only MN has highlighted to me it's not usual.

Can people give the OP a break please? She's a FTB and to be honest when I was I knew bugger all about the process. I nearly got shafted by my own solicitor who was a friend of a friend but screwed up the legalities by not checking the seller of my new property had no debts outstanding on the property. They'd stopped paying the service charge months before even listing the property then claimed to my solicitor I'd agreed to take on the charges. I asked them to show me in writing where this had been agreed and it went away. But I was a naive FTB who thought everyone would be honest and do their job thoroughly and professionally. I was wrong and sadly so is the OP.

The English system is different as it is the seller who instructs and pays for searches but I think somewhere along the line there has been huge cross wires.

1. The solicitor is your solicitor, not the builders.
2. No solicitor in the UK can take on any new client without verifying the client's identity for money laundering requirements. That is an absolute requirement. Clients are asked to provide a passport and verification of home address.

1. The builder might be paying the fees but he is not the client. A solicitor should always issue a letter of engagement setting out what they will do and what the fee is. This should acknowledge a third party is paying the fee but making clear that if the 3rd party reneges on that you as client is still responsible.

4 why on earth do you need a gardener and a plumber for a new house?

All was going well and I was set to complete tomorrow, I'd contacted the solicitors weeks ago to leave my contact number and introduce myself

You introduced yourself to the solicitor a week ago, ie had never had any contact from them before yet thought you'd complete on the property tomorrow

The problem here is you clearly have no idea whatsoever about what house conveyancing involves or how long it takes so have completely unrealistic expectations.

No solicitor would have said you can complete that quickly if they hadn't had any documentation from you.

Didn't it occur to you that you might need to fill some forms in at the very least?

The 1st April was a Friday, the 5th Tuesday so it hadn't taken 4 days to email - 2 were the weekend.

So he is paying all your fees?

Searches? Stamp duty (if applicable)? Deposit?

You can't complete unless you have paid for all these and given them the deposit.

Have the searches even been done?

I would consider the fact that the developer is causing a lot of these problems and she doesn't remember speaking to you or has you confused with someone else.

I really don't understand how you can have though you wouldn't have had to have least handed the deposit over before completion.

I can only suggest you acquaint yourself with how this all works.

The English system is different as it is the seller who instructs and pays for searches but I think somewhere along the line there has been huge cross wires.

That's not correct at all.

There's tons of paperwork for the mortgage, too. OP doesn't mention anything about that but there's a lot to do before you even get the decision in principle. Again, providing ID and proof of address at the minimum, plus they will want to inspect the property you want to buy and arrange a survey for their benefit. I assume OP hasn't got any issues with the mortgage provider as that hasn't been mentioned.