to want to throttle cyclists who run red lights?

[Millionprammiles]

Just that really. Am sick of dd being narrowly missed when crossing at a green man (outside a primary school ffs) . Small children are especially at risk as cyclists can't see them when they're coming up on the inside of cars, so they assume its clear.
Not one cyclist has stopped to apologise.

I can't take a licence plate number. Unless one of them actually hits her I'm guessing the police won't be interested in looking at CCTV. Which is why cyclists continue doing it, day after day.
I think I'm in danger of running after one of them and pushing him off his bike.
(And yes its always been a male cyclist).

Zebra crossing are not red lights.
Those drivers are cocks and shouldn't have gone over the zebra crossing but it's not the same as a cyclist going straight through a red light over a crossing with at least 30 people on it.

This would be you complaining about posters bleating on about cyclists.

No, it isn't. Scroll back to the post I'm actually replying to there. As I have explained about fourteen times now: I think it's unfair to complain about people "derailing the thread" when they're no further off the original topic than you are, that's all.

But you seem determined to believe that I'm one of those angry cyclists trying to shut people up from criticising us, no matter what I actually say. Which is a bit of a shame, really - I'd much rather have a decent conversation! And we already agree that cyclists have no excuse for jumping red lights, so surely we're on the same side anyway?

Serious question - can cyclist who cycle at night without lights be prosecuted?

They can get fined a couple of hundred quid.

A few cyclists who do this spoil the argument for more cycle lanes. In part because cyclists are judged differently from car drivers, at least 20% of whom should never be let behind the wheel.

I don't identify with drivers or cyclists, I identify with pedestrians who don't want cars or bikes on pavements or going through red lights.

As someone else said, if you can't take your bike on the road for some reason, fine, come on the pavement - just make sure you're pushing your bike, not riding it. Otherwise you just look rude and stupid.

The most recent cyclist behaviour that made me go 'wtf' was a cyclist in full gear, going very fast, on the pavement, on his mobile phone - texting, I think, hands were on the phone not on the handlebars.

YANBU.

Cyclists who run red lights are annoying, dangerous, and give good cyclists a bad name.

Cyclists who run red lights are annoying, dangerous, and give good cyclists a bad name.

The acceptance of this attitude is a BIG problem. It's narrow-minded prejudicial stereotyping and it's dangerous.

Doctor Harold Shipman was quite annoying, what with his killing 218 people and that, but did he give good doctors a bad name?

Nurse Beverley Allitt was also somewhat annoying and dangerous, with all that killing children stuff, but did she give good nurses a bad name?

Customer Service Representative, Anders Breivik was even more annoying and dangerous, with all that slaughtering of 77 innocent children business, but does he give good customer service representatives a bad name?

Probably not, but then, we are all dcotors, nurses, customer services representatives and the like, or our friends and family are, so we identify with them. The are acceptable, normal, understandable; we can empathise. But cyclists? Noooo, they're weird. Dressed in spandex, in broad daylight? Getting places more quickly than the queueing cars? Not normal. No empathy.

Idiots on bikes who run reds on busy pedestrian crossings are idiots, who happen to be on bikes. They aren't representative of cyclists, any more that Harry, Bev and Anders are representative of their societal categories.

I meant to continue:

That 'bad name' given to cyclists puts cyclists in very serious danger. The cases of cyclists being deliberately driven into by motorists are increasing in number rapidly. The convicted perpetrators are being let off with slapped wrists. As someone mentioned above, if you want to kill someone these days and get away with it, put them on a bike a run them over.

It's a particularly insidious form of prejudice, and it's killing people.

I'm a runner (slow one). By far the biggest danger to me out running is cyclists - for starters, cars don't creep up silently without lights at dusk or filter down the side of stopped traffic (esp buses) without using their bells.

Yesterday I ran from my office in the City to Kings X and down to St James Park. I encountered one car behaving badly (Arab woman in shiny new Range Rover sailing straight through a zebra crossing on Lisson Grove) but a mind boggling number of stupid cyclists.

This included:
Cyclists riding full pelt under blind canal bridges, ignoring the 'dismount' or 'give way to pedestrians' signs.
Cyclists refusing to dismount on bits of canal where they are instructed to do so due to building works
Cyclists generally ignoring the huge painted pavement signs in the Royal Parks that cycling isn't allowed
And most annoyingly - at 3 different green man crossings (Marylebone Road, Bayswater Road and Knightsbridge), there were cyclists furiously riding through red lights, dinging their bells, expecting people to scatter in their path.

I am a really considerate runner - I don't want the aggro of nearly knocking into walkers, or expecting people to scatter as I run towards them. I generally hug the left side of the path to allow other people as much space as possible to walk two-three abreast. It doesn't make my interactions with cyclists any less irritating or dangerous.

Ruby, I'm a runner too and I run on the streets in winter. I find extremely stressful and its because of not knowing when I'm going to meet a cyclist barrelling along on the pavement, dressed in black, no lights, appearing out of nowhere. Its bloody scary. I tend to avoid pedestrian crossings like the plague because you can't rely on people to stop and again, its bloody scary.

And most annoyingly - at 3 different green man crossings (Marylebone Road, Bayswater Road and Knightsbridge), there were cyclists furiously riding through red lights, dinging their bells, expecting people to scatter in their path.

Exactly, yes some drivers fail to stop at zebra crossings but I doubt you will have seen three occasions of drivers going straight through a busy crossing full of people in one day.

And to say that one doctor killing patients didn't give all doctors a bad name is utterly ridiculous. One doctor out of all the doctors in the country as compared to a small but significant percentage of cyclists.
I'm sure every single person here can say they have seen a cycling sail through a red light. I've yet to see a doctor that has deliberately killed people.

Some spectacular mis-understandings of my original post (and failures to read my subsequent posts) on here by some...

So, for the last time, the reason this post is about cyclists running red lights (and not cars, buses, motorbikes, vans or lorries) is because a cyclist has had a near miss with my dd on average 1-2 times a week at the SAME crossing over the course of 2 YEARS.
Not once has any other type of vehicle nearly hit dd at THAT crossing.

My own theory is that road vehicle drivers see the (prominent) school signs at this crossing and don't risk running the red light. Many cyclists however take a different approach.

I genuinely don't know how to cross that road safely with dd anymore. If I shield her there's even less chance of a cyclist seeing her.

One doctor out of all the doctors in the country as compared to a small but significant percentage of cyclists.

So what is the legitimate cut-off percentage to justify a group-prejudice ("bad cyclists give good bad cyclists a bad name")?

To the OP - these people really are selfish, inconsiderate and dangerous morons. Ask the police to monitor.

The cases of cyclists being deliberately driven into by motorists are increasing in number rapidly

I'm not sure drivers are deliberately driving into cyclists. However, there is a big problem generally with drivers who kill people getting away with it. If you killed someone in any other way, it would be manslaughter (possibly murder). In fact it probably is if you are on a bike! But because you are in a car it's not. It should be.

I was also shocked by the recent case of a cyclist who was killed or very badly injured in London, not sure which now, and police didn't prosecute because cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That's like not prosecuting a rapist because the lady was wearing a short skirt, or not prosecuting a burglar because someone left their window open. Victim blaming, again!

a cyclist has had a near miss with my dd on average 1-2 times a week at the SAME crossing over the course of 2 YEARS.

That's 80-160 times. Are you sure?

million Maybe a small tank? If you could arm it with a paint ball gun turret you could mark and shame the bad cyclists.

I like those school crossing barriers you get abroad, a bit like on train level crossings that would stop anyone running the red lights. Our crossing lady is pretty formidable but there is only so much she can do with her pole

I really think you should tell the police - it sounds awful. Do you know where the cyclists are going to? to a local office or something? Maybe a call there would help, or maybe local children could design signs to put on lampposts?

acasual - of course I'm sure.
We use that crossing at peak rush hour in London 5 times a week. A lot of cyclists use the road as its a way of avoiding using the even more congested (and presumably less safe) main (A) road. Many of the side roads are one way, narrow and would involve quite a detour.

I posted earlier about how cyclists can't see the crossing fully if they're coming up on the inside (which most do, to avoid oncoming traffic). So they can see adults on the crossing, but not small children.
Additionally its not a hugely wide road so cyclists may be trying to get ahead of cars for their own safety.

So - its a route favoured by cyclists,
its rush hour with cars in both directions,
its not a wide road and
cyclists can't see the crossing fully.

This probably all contributes but still doesn't justify running a red light, especially at a crossing children are more likely to use.

SarfEast - sadly I've no way of identifying the cyclists, they could be any one of thousands of people returning home from work.

million I didn't realise you were in London - you're right - impossible. I bet the area has cctv cameras though - could you get the police to monitor!
As it must be the same for other parents of the school, maybe the school can do something?
If not I can only offer you my earlier suggestion of a tank.

Is your daughter the only pupil from the school who uses this crossing?

She's not at the school and it isn't school-end time when we're crossing (more like 6-7pm aka rush hour in London). Frequently we're the only people crossing the road. In some ways I'd feel safer if there were lots of people crossing at that time as maybe the cyclists would be more likely to stop.

We have a local Facebook group about road safety in the area (our local MP has been asked to observe key danger spots). Its focused on the A road but I might ask about whether it can also highlight cyclists use of this crossing.

Have space on the road for bikes to be, which keeps them separate from the pedestrians and the cars

Doesn't work around here. We have a long stretch of road with a generous cycle lane which can easily fit two cyclists side by side (that people can't park in because there's also onroad parking) and massive groups of cyclists still ride 5/6 a breast like they're in some sort of pelaton.

"For the record, cyclists injure almost as many pedestrians as cars: in 2012, cyclists injured 21 pedestrians per billion km travelled, whilst cars injured 24. (Source: The Times)"

And from that article: "Research by the City of Westminster Council last year found that, in collisions between pedestrians and cyclists, 60 per cent of the crashes were caused by the pedestrian."

O.K. so the primary school mentioned in your OP is not your child's school?

It's quite true that UK roads tend to be a bit old to have had proper cycling lanes built in, and equally true that we could all do with them. But here's a perhaps pertinent question for fellow cyclists:

How many would be happy to pay for licensing (or whatever) in order to fund it??