To think we're fucked!

[justabigmess]

I honestly dont know what to do or where to turn.

Basically my DH is getting sacked its been completey fabricated as the new manager wants his own staff in.

We have two DD and no savings (stupid but never have enough money left to save!) wont be able to claim jsa or working tax because i dont work enough hours, no family to help.

Weve been in this position before but managed to win a payout which helped to pay our basic bills but couldnt cover our debts then so weve been paying them on sort of dmp ever since. This time i doubt we can win anything without a big fight which we cant afford (not in a union).

This year was meant to be our year to clear everything up and now were going back to square one. Were in a rented house and i honestly cant see how were going to recover this time.

We havent got the fight in us again and this will destroy DHs career its completely breaking him and i feel so helpless and utterly pissed off after two years of giving it his all its made him worse off.

Dont know whats the point anymore!

Dont really know why i have posted here hoping someone will come along and tell me it will be ok

Yes he is a twit but he cannot think on his feet to save his life!

Well yes it is relevant but he has admitted and accepted it as after the appeal it was upheld he didnt take it any further i mean what more could he do. They said he would have to take it up with the MD who initiated the bloody warning.

I more concerned though about them sacking him over performance issues with not evidence to prove either way.

Did he take anyone with him to the meeting, was it minuted? Are you sure the discussion went as he has reported it to you? Unfortunately his time keeping has already put him at a disadvantage. Your best bet is to ensure that procedure has been followed but it sounds as if his card has been marked for a while. It could be that his popularity with staff has come about because he was more tolerant of them and perhaps hasn't set a disciplined example.

If they're trying to dismiss him on the grounds of poor performance they need to give him examples, or else how would he know what he needs to improve on?

They're really not playing fair and he needs to insist on a meeting with his MD to ask these questions... and if they won't answer and dismiss him anyway then he would have grounds to take to a tribunal.

I'm sure if you are sacked you can claim it's not a blank rule. If you just left because you thought stuff it then yes no jsa for certain period. If there is element of doubt over dismiss he may well claim jsa. Unless he's done something totally outraged that's consists of gross dissimal where obvious it was done on purpose to get sacked. Definitely worth signing on anyway.

He should write to them and say that he appreciates he is in a two week improvement period. Please can they tell him how they will measure his performance and what his performance will be measured against so that he can make sure he meets their expectations.

The two week period should not start until he knows what is expected of him, in writing, so he can meet their targets.

Draft it up now, it can be hand written, keep a copy and send him in to work with it tomorrow.

They cannot performance age him without providing this. If they do, it's unfair dismissal - should it come to that

*manage

No meetings were minuted however he did record them for me to listen to as he is uncomfortable thinking on his feet and wanted my help/opinion on how he dealt with it. I know exactly how awful they are the dont let him speak and just shout random accusations at him with no evidence.

I have sat and responded to every point in the letter asking for examples of poor performance and asked how they will measure performance going forward.

I have everything crossed this will help.

I think they have to answer your questions and it's very important that your husband does not go into the next meeting alone, he needs support. It doesn't need to be an employee or union rep.

In the letters it states a colleague or union unless its for disability reasons.

None of his colleagues will get involved which i dont really blame them tbh theyre all on egg shells.

What a horrid situation. Sounds like the company have got themselves thoroughly muddled - they were using a disciplinary path (misconduct, re the lateness) and then they switched and are now using a capability path (unspecified under-performance?). These are two separate mechanisms and each has to start from the beginning for due process to be followed - they can't leap to the middle of a capability process because they'd taken some steps in a disciplinary process. They could run both in tandem, but it doesn't sound like they're doing that. To manage someone out of a role using a capability process they will need to set targets, demonstrate the right support is in place to achieve them, and monitor performance against those targets over a reasonable period.

Some really good advice here already, and I think Jayho was spot on. I hope you get some good real life back-up soon, and that things turn out well for you all

Thank you Neat your exactly right. He has a staff handbook with those seperate policies stated and they cant even follow them its just a nightmare.

I really hope he finds something soon its really putting us under alot of strain now.

Hi op I've been a manager where had to out someone on an improvement plan. The process was much much more involved than what they are doing with him. He can have someone at the meeting and it doesn't have to be employee or union. Its just certain confidential issues regarding business may not be able to be discussed. The performance plan should clearly state areas for improvement and how can be measured and training provided, meeting held weekly to provide feedback. Process lasts months and horrid for all involved. But sounds like this company is trying to avoid it. Even if not in union id speak with them, or CAB.

Really sorry to hear this OP.

Just one thought: have you got home contents insurance? Many policies give cover for legal issues to cover emoyment. If you have home contents insurance it is worth checking your policy,

It's good that they have a handbook - a tribunal will not look favourably on a Company who has a policy and doesn't follow it to the letter. Many a tribunal has been won because of this.

OP, please seek professional help for this because you're getting some well-meaning but incorrect advice mixed in with the good stuff throughout your thread.

Good luck in getting it sorted.

We've been in this position before but managed to win a payout which helped to pay our basic bills but couldnt cover our debts then so weve been paying them on sort of dmp ever since.

Just wondered if this was for a similar reason, or something entirely different ?

Last time was because he had a child and we could prove thats why so was pretty easy win really.

Yes i have insurance will look into that thanks.

Yes we are contact CAB today feels much more complicated this time deffinately need correct advice.

Whilst he's going through this can you not get full time work to cover the shortfall?

I think that it needs to be an "all hands on deck" approach for you - as well as him looking for another job, it sounds like you need to start looking for full time employment as well, as you could well have greater employment and earning potential than he does at this point. You're on 18 hours a week, right? How do your hourly rates compare? The priority here is to get one of you into full time employment and the other full or part time. It doesn't matter which of you does what, even if you feel a bit "oh but we've always done it this way". In the nicest way possible, your DH doesn't sound quite as capable or on the ball as you do, and maybe it might be time to consider your future as the main breadwinner, at least for the time being.

Yes i will be looking for a fulltime job only my hourly rate is half what his is and i have just started his job which for my career has been a good move .

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Can he asks for the MD's assistant / secretary to take notes? Someone who might be perceived as being loyal to the MD is still better than no witness. Most solicitors tell you that there is much less he said/ she said disagreements when there's a note-taker present in a meeting.

Apologies if you've said already, but is there a chance you could approach your company and ask to increase your hours?

Then your DH could do a part time job to get in a bit of extra cash.