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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we're fucked!

73 replies

justabigmess · 04/04/2016 16:24

I honestly dont know what to do or where to turn.

Basically my DH is getting sacked its been completey fabricated as the new manager wants his own staff in.

We have two DD and no savings (stupid but never have enough money left to save!) wont be able to claim jsa or working tax because i dont work enough hours, no family to help.

Weve been in this position before but managed to win a payout which helped to pay our basic bills but couldnt cover our debts then so weve been paying them on sort of dmp ever since. This time i doubt we can win anything without a big fight which we cant afford (not in a union).

This year was meant to be our year to clear everything up and now were going back to square one. Were in a rented house and i honestly cant see how were going to recover this time.

We havent got the fight in us again and this will destroy DHs career its completely breaking him and i feel so helpless and utterly pissed off after two years of giving it his all its made him worse off.

Dont know whats the point anymore!

Dont really know why i have posted here hoping someone will come along and tell me it will be ok Sad

OP posts:
Hissy · 04/04/2016 17:21

Could you increase your hours? Get another job in the meantime? If he's at home, he can take over the childcare.

MaidOfStars · 04/04/2016 17:29

Hes been there just over 2 years
He has rights.

If his performance is poor, they need to enact a plan to allow him to improve. He should have feedback and achievable targets to meet. They can't just get rid after two years - there is a process.

figureofspeech · 04/04/2016 17:34

Sign up for temping agencies what he's looking for a permanent job.

Speak to ACAS for employment advice & the CAB for benefits eligibility

If your dh's manager isn't following procedures then can your dh put in a grievance. This might slow down the dismissal process as HR will have to investigate.

m.acas.org.uk

jobs.mumsnet.com/jobs/

www.manpower.co.uk

Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 17:37

Thats the thing i dont know if he has got a clear shot at constructive dismissal.

They are saying that he admitted to the MD that hes not working as well because hes pissed off because of other warnings which isnt what he said at all.

Think the only thing we can do before the end of these two weeks is for him to type his side and send to MD (there is no HR).

I just have to hope for the best but i fear hes going to lose it hes so upset.

OP posts:
Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 17:39

All theyve said in this letter that he has to work more overtime and never be late no measurable performance targets in realtion to his actual work just basically the word of his manager.

Its stated in the letter that his line manager has noted poor performance but no examples!

OP posts:
wombattoo · 04/04/2016 17:48

If he has had 'other warnings' and a final written warning, I think he has run out of options. Best to start looking elsewhere.

Youarentkiddingme · 04/04/2016 17:48

Well I'll be fucked sideways if he can be dismissed for not working on ove his contracted hours.

Don't let him have a meeting with MD unless he has a witness there for him or the MD lets him record the conversations.

What is the policy re warnings? Is it clearly stated somewhere that being late will result in a written warning? Why was he late, did he inform them, was it avoidable?
They can only get away with this if every employee who has been late has received the same consequence.

TheoriginalLEM · 04/04/2016 17:53

We are with payplan, i am not sure if they are a charity but they don't charge to manage the debts and will deal with all of the creditors for you - which has saved our sanity and means you only have to make one payment. Creditors are often more understanding when you have a debt management company (so long as they are reputable) dealing with your debts because they know they have to pretty much put up and shut up

Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 17:54

He is looking elsewhere every waking hour hes not at work hes scowring job sites.

It states in his contract he has to work overtime to suit demands of the business. They do have policys but they are not following them but according to acas as they dont make up his contract it doesnt matter.

He was late by 5-10mins on a few occasions due to over sleeping which is bad but at this time he was working so much overtime and not had a day off in 33days he was exhausted. He did appeal but they wouldnt drop it saying it was unacceptable because he had not rung in.

OP posts:
fluffiphlox · 04/04/2016 17:55

Does he have a union rep?

glasg0wmum · 04/04/2016 17:55

He was on a final written warning for being late, he was late again and they dismissed him? That's not unreasonable at all! It's not like he was late once and they marched him off the premises.

As far as I know you can claim Benefits if you're sacked, but you can't if you resign or leave voluntarily.

Pollaidh · 04/04/2016 18:01

Is he in a union? If so he should take a union rep with him to the meeting. If not he can still take a friend, preferably someone fairly senior and independent, whose word might be taken seriously.

What kind of 'late' was it - an occasional mildly late public transport problem, or either (1) frequently slightly late or (2) ridiculously late and with no good reason?

Not sure what kind of job he's in - might be relevant.

Did he ever sign the EU Working Time Directive Exemption (which permits his employers to ask for additional hours)? If he signed it I would think it would be more complicated. If he didn't sign it then unless there's something in his contract which states he needs to take his share of overtime, then I can't see how this can be disciplinable. (But am no expert.)

Tomorrow make sure he downloads, prints, saves all the relevant HR guidance on performance management, over time, etc, so they can't change it later. Also take copies of all performance reviews, emails of congratulation/thanks from previous bosses/colleagues, anything which supports the position that his performance is generally good.

AuntieMaggie · 04/04/2016 18:02

He can join a union today can't he and start using them now

Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 18:02

No the first warning was for been late (which he hasnt been since!) the second was for performance which was untrue.

And they have now issued him a letter to say he got two weeks to improve as his manager has said his performance is poor and he has admitted it (untrue!). He has had several colleagues ring him to say how disgusting it is and hes the best theyve had but wont stand up to defend him or act as a witness in meetings for fear of losing their job.

OP posts:
Pollaidh · 04/04/2016 18:05

Not had a day off in 33 days? I am sure there is a rule that covers that, but not sure if it counts if he's volunteered for overtime (where I work there is no such thing as 'overtime', but we all work over our hours, without pay).

Maybe a duty of care issue here? As in company has a duty of care to its employees. Hard to see how no time off in 33 days complies with duty of care. Way out of my depth now though.

Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 18:06

The lateness is no longer an issue tbh there not sacking him for that. They are trying to say its based on performance.

He doesnt have appraisals targets or anything like that. They are a small manufactoring company.

This is where i struggle we cant prove his performance and they cant prove hes not other than what his manager says.

OP posts:
Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 18:08

Not sure what hes signed and doubt he would either to be honest hes not good with that sort of thing.

Sent him a link for a union worth a try.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 04/04/2016 18:08

33 days without a break might not be legal as the Working Time regs specify one day off a week (there are some opt outs allowed and it's not my area of expertise). You might want to check that point with ACAS as it might allow you to undermine the first warning and push back on his treatment.

MinnieF1 · 04/04/2016 18:08

Go to CAB to find out what his rights are. Take a copy of the company's relevant policies with you. Write them a letter outlining how they are breaking their own policies & common law. Tell them you will take legal action if they fail to adhere to their own policies.

Good luck to your DH. I hope he manages to find another job soon as it sounds like an awful place to work.

P.S if the majority of the staff members think this is wrong, will they not act as witnesses (re the lie about poor performance) if a big group of them agree to do so? A company is hardly likely to sack the majority of its staff overnight, especially if they know your DH is looking into taking legal action.

Buzzardbird · 04/04/2016 18:09

No day off in 33 days? I would think that was illegal? If his performance suffered, that would be why, surely?
I would join a Union, pronto.

ilovesooty · 04/04/2016 18:09

He can join a union today can't he and start using them now

Unions will often not deal with problems which predate joining.

TheWeeBabySeamus1 · 04/04/2016 18:17

I'm sure that you can't work more than 14 days in a row without a break so his employers have broken regulations. And if it was exhaustion due to working over regulated hours that caused him to be a few minutes late then I would absolutely fight it.

Original poster
justabigmess · 04/04/2016 18:17

Thank you weve got all policys to hand think i will see if he can get an appointment with CAB asap.

No they wouldnt sack them all over night but they fear it will put them in the firing line and there all just trying to keep there head down. Its not just my DH that theyve done this too.

We mentioned how much he worked to acas and they said its illegal. I think theres just so much shit going off and been said its so hard to piece it all together so that we can fight then. Dh doesnt help because he doesnt note things and is not good at recalling things such as dates who was there etc. So i feel like ive got a jigsaw to put togeher with no bloody picture argh!

OP posts:
Youarentkiddingme · 04/04/2016 18:26

He can't work 33 days without a day off. In fact I don't think you can work over a week without a day off. That includes if that is overtime or not.

Neither will a contract "overtime to suit needs of business" stand up unless it states how many hours that may be or prove that the company lost money by him not working beyond his contract.

And 5-10 minutes isn't that late - but TBH he's a bit of a twit if he cited I
oversleeping and not unexpected heavy traffic or child was sick as we left house and I had to arrange emergency childcare. Wink

Youarentkiddingme · 04/04/2016 18:27

But the lateness is relevant - it's the previous warning for lateness that have preceded this one for poor performance.