Re Ice Cream?

[WTAFF]

I'm after some advice from you all. I went for an ice cream today and ordered a cornet with a flake.

The woman behind the counter took payment from me and then after handling the money grabbed the cornet, filled it with ice cream and then stuck a flake in the cornet with her bare hands. The only part she didn't touch with her unwashed hands was the ice cream!

This is in a place with a 5* hygiene rating. Surely this can't be normal?

I have severe germ phobic tendencies (OCD) so this may be clouding my judgement. I didn't say anything in case I was being unreasonable but next time I think I might try another ice cream place!

WIBU?

YWNBU.

Money handling and food handling should be separate. This is best practice.

Viruses like norovirus only takes a few particles. After ingestion it can take up to 3 or 4 days for symptoms to develop.

I don't think anyone can confidently say that they've never got sick from poor food handling.

Antibac is ineffective against viruses. We don't need exposure to viruses to build up a healthy immune system.

An ice cream vendor transmitting noro from coins to food, may be putting vulnerable groups at serious risk, e.g 90 year old Auntie Doris' last trip to the seaside..

How easy is it too handle money just with one hand. I don't work with food but I do use a till and I use both hands to take money, operate till and count change.

Yep yanbu - I used to work in an ice cream shop and we used to pick up the corner with a corner of the napkin too. Hate it when I see people just using hands, I don't give a monkeys how 'clean' they say they are, it's just good practice not to directly and blatantly handle something that someone else is going to be eating. If we were on the ice cream section all day we would wear a glove, with the emphasis being A glove... You then take the cash with the ungloved hand. Simple.

I never eat the cone unless it was held and served with a paper wrapper.

I dread to think how actual ice cream vans can manage to serve up and wash their hands.

So does everybody in the queue wash their hands after they've paid, before they touch their cone? If not, the logic is skewed.
If you have the mindset that every surface carries germs which you must not come into contact with then life becomes almost impossible and you have a danger of developing a serious phobia.

Overly fussy. Do you wash hands between handing over money and accepting a cone?

Birrhgeek, I think I can, at least re norovirus. I haven't thrown up in over a decade

Aa for antibacterial gel, it is nasty stuff. Start looking at the possible effects of using it long term, and norovirus starts to look like a more attractive option.

I was advised that bare hands are more hygienic than gloves as you tend to notice and wash dirty hands wheras when wearing gloves people often transfer dirt on them as they can't feel it. This was on a food hygiene course.

Nineties ideally you'd wash your hands before eating, as we are all taught when very small... If not, you can get antiviral hand wipes. Or eat it with a tissue.

Chances are greater that a trader who has handled money from many many different people is at greater risk of having fecal particles on their hands, than an individual customer handling their own change. Law of odds.

What a customer does with his or her own hands is a customer's choice.

Food handlers otoh, are not making choices or taking chances just for themselves but for all of their hundreds of customers, and therefore there are standards and rules governing their routines. Food borne illness is not a joke or something to be shrugged at, and it is preventable.

primaryteach97 I can totally understand that. Gloves can get grubby/torn and make us clumsy.

Zoe some people contract noro or similar and are asymptomatic. Others will be very symptomatic! But anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove best hygiene practice.

Anti bacterial stuff is useless against noro, as it's a virus. A immunologically compromised person would rather use an antiviral hand sanitiser than be seriously ill.

Primary I hope they also taught you that fecal particles are invisible to the naked eye?!

But didn't you handle the money and the ice cream too (or did you hand over the money and take any change and then rush off to wash your hands) and then take the ice cream from her?

The best solution, if you are anxious about the part of the cone that has been touched, is probably to chuck that bit in the bin so you can carry on your day without an anxiety of developing a nasty illness.

Or buy a screwball in a plastic tub.

people handling food and money should have a 'dirty hand' for money and a 'clean' hand for handling food.

As someone who is very hygienic conscious, i complete agree with you OP

Birthgeek, erm yes but one is hardly going to go to the loo in your gloves! You wash your hands after going to the loo and whenever you handle anything dirty....obviously

Birthgeek the OP is not, as far as we know, immunocompromised. She has germ phobic OCD. I had germ phobia when pregnant, it wasn't fun at all (understatement). The correct response to somebody exhibiting irrational fear of germs is not to say in effect 'yes, doooooom, omg the woman handled a piece of chocolate with her BARE hands. And by the way, did you know that you can get really ill from only two or three germs?' Whether or not it is hypothetical 'best practice', the risk to health in this case was extremely, extremely minimal. That is what the OP should be focusing on.

When pregnant I used to wash my hands 100s of times a day. Now, I wash them at the usual times (you know - after the loo, after gardening, preparing raw chicken and suchlike). I wasn't often ill when pregnant. I'm not often ill now. The ONLY change is in my perception of risk. Try to get help - it's so incredibly liberating not going around terrified of dirt and germs all the time.

Primary You said bare hands were preferable to wearing gloves because you can tell when they are dirty, easier.

My response was meant to suggest that either way, good hygiene does not mean things simply 'looking' or 'feeling' clean. But I probably didn't make that clear enough, sorry.

Hmm. I stopped buying ice creams from our friendly local van after I saw the van stop and the vendor get out for a piss in a nearby alley. Shouldn't imagine there was much hand washing going on there either.

But lets be honest, when you buy from a van, what do you expect? I'd turn a blind eye to the money handling, but not the pissing.

Op I'm not germ phobic at all and I agree with you entirely on this! I have complained twice, once I saw the girl sweep the floor, serve the three or four people in front of me and then make my ice cream so I asked her for new cones where she either wore gloves or used napkins. The other time was in Alton Towers, I queued for ages and only when I got near the top did I see she had no gloves, no sign of a sink or hand santizier either so I asked her if she really thought that it was an ok thing to do and not a bit manky, to be fair she looked like it just never dawned on her before and looked like she agreed, I was very nice though both times. Once I got a new cone and the other I went to the shop.

I don't agree it's ott, it's just one of those things that bother some and doesn't bother others, everyone has a "thing", my friend won't eat birthday cake if there were candles on it that had been blown out, when she pointed it out to me I thought it was a bit manky too but my love of cake trumps it so I push it to the back of my mind

Great point ZoeM an irrational fear of germs can have a crippling effect on someone's life so obsessing about a cone with germs on is not particularly helpful for an OP who has a health anxiety and OCD.

Zoe I disagree with you entirely. Or are you suggesting that we should we ditch all accepted hygiene rules? Which are not hypothetical, by the way, they're based on clinical evidence.

Many pp have agreed with the OP. They probably don't have germ phobia. It's pure common sense and the official advice backs it up.

The correct treatment for phobias tends to be CBT or hypnotherapy. This does not then mean that people suddenly wish to put themselves at extra risk by ignoring poor food handling practice.

We're all different. OP should not be made to feel that her concerns were unreasonable. Or that she's making a big deal over nothing. The outlet was in the wrong and would certainly not be given a high rating if an inspector observed it.

Some people wouldn't personally be bothered, others would be. Luckily we can all choose what to do for ourselves.

That is to say, the OP is not asking if her germ phobia is unreasonable. That's not the point here. The outlet wnbr.