My mother sends my PIL (I'm NC) Xmas cards.

[elfycat]

And I'm uncomfortable with this.

Background: I've been NC with my PIL for about 18 months now, following on from over a decade of emotional abuse and bullying.

Examples include (but for brevity I won't write the essay) refusing to accept my name, which was not changed at the point of marriage; writing birthday cheques to the incorrect name, writing birthday cheques in my husband's name as 'it's all to confusing', telling me that it happened automatically and I cannot refuse it.

At my wedding reception I was ordered to drink 'a more ladylike drink out of a more ladylike glass'. I carried on with the real ale... FIL absolutely dressed me down later on in the reception. He denies this and has called me a liar. The altercation was witnessed by other guests, but even 10 years later FIL is still trying to gaslight DH that his version of events is true. In his head I screamed at him and he only gave as good as he got. In reality I turned and walked away without a word and without glassing him, as one of the witnesses thought I should have...

After having DDs I was told to have my long hair cut short. Not asked if I was going to - but told. I still have hair the length I like it.

On a 'family holiday' that I told DH to get me out of, but he lives in FOG I was made to take my night-owl child to bed at 7pm... while all the adults stayed up I had to stay in a small room, keeping said child (sleep time 10pm ish) quiet as we'd had to give up the living room in our cottage to a nephew (so that FIL could have a sulk-room). Yes DH could have taken his share of the nights, but I would not have wanted to stay without him.

Tonight I am chatting to DM, and explaining why I think she should cool her relationship/ friendship with my sister's PIL. My sister is low contact with her PIL who are making heavy weather of the difference between their adoptive grandchildren and their 'new' natural grandchildren. I think it undermines DS's position, and that the PIL will be able to feel vindicated by my parent's contact with them; that it is my sister that is wrong and my parents demonstrate that.

Then DM tells me that she sends Xmas cards to MY PIL...

AIBU to feel that DM is giving my PIL that ability to feel that they have her support - against my position? Or an AIBU to feel that way? I've told DM that I will put this to the MN jury.

DM wants to point out that she would never tell me who I can be friends with, or who I can send Xmas cards to.

I would like to point out that I believe that if my DM ever met PIL then she would wipe the floor with FIL. DH and I secretly grin about how fierce she would be.

I think your last post says it all. We had a few years nc with my in laws and they still exchanged Christmas cards with my parents. Ironically the final straw had been the way my MIL had treated my parents at our wedding (though there was plenty more before then and it was just the straw that broke the camel's back).
I never thought much of it (the cards). Its a kind of generational etiquette thing - you send cards to certain people even if you hate them because it's expected of you.

Just because you don't like them doesn't mean your mum
Has to dislike them too.

YANBU explain to your mother about loyalty.

I dong think you should be in the least interested in what form
Of contact goes on between your mum and your PILs

Do they send a card back to your mother? If not, could you suggest to your mum that it might be time to stop?

I think you need to grow up. Your mum is a grown adult and can send Christmas cards to whoever she likes.

No advice, but out of curiosity - do PIL reciprocate the Christmas cards?

It's up to your DM who she sends cards to. In the absence of violence or child abuse I wouldn't judge anyone for sending a card to someone I don't like.

Your relationship with your ILs is just that - YOUR relationship. The examples you give of PIL behaviour are undoubtedly annoyingly twatty or with generosity - 'old fashioned'. I'd be pissed off but wouldn't go NC. From your post I'm guessing there's more background and wondering if your DP really thinks he'd go NC with his family if you judged their behaviour/comments were unacceptable because if you were my DP and you wanted me to be NC on the examples you gave, I wouldn't be in a relationship with you to be honest.

If it's any consolation, my parents split up 26 years ago. My paternal Grandmother who wasn't a huge fan of my Mum when her son (my Dad) and my Mum were married but has sent my Mum a birthday and Xmas card every year since. They haven't spoken in almost 30 and my Grandmother lacks the passive /aggression or manipulation to be 'making a point' after 20 fecking years, she just sends cards every year like she has done for decades.

It means nothing.

Yes my PIL do send Xmas cards to my parents.

With regard to your list of heinous crimes your pil have committed - I think it's fairly reasonable to not want a young child about of an evening, to have a bit of grown up time. It's a bit dramatic to go nc as a result if that list.
I also think your Dm can send a card to who she wants, especially since it's because she's just a lovely person, it doesn't sound like she's doing it to spite you.

To put the NC in perspective. DH and I both went NC with them 10 years ago, after the wedding. It's not that they were old fashioned. It's that when challenged FIL goes off on one, absolutely ranting and raving and gaslighting anyone with his version of events. You can't imagine what it's like to be there, unless you have experienced something similar.

DH thought his father had apologised to me (hahahahahaha!) whenI reluctantly agreed to contact again. He didn;t, but told DH he had. A couple of years ago DH and I had a marital 'challenge' and FIL went off again about the wedding thing, gaslighting all over again. DH came home and apologised unreservedly for his lack of support over his parents and thier bullying. But they are his parents and although I am self-confessed bossy - I am not a bully and do not dictate to people what they can and can't do.

Even before I finished my opening post I had already answered the AIBU in my head, no and yes.

To put the NC in perspective. DH and I both went NC with them 10 years ago, after the wedding. It's not that they were old fashioned. It's that when challenged FIL goes off on one, absolutely ranting and raving and gaslighting anyone with his version of events. You can't imagine what it's like to be there, unless you have experienced something similar.

DH thought his father had apologised to me (hahahahahaha!) whenI reluctantly agreed to contact again. He didn;t, but told DH he had. A couple of years ago DH and I had a marital 'challenge' and FIL went off again about the wedding thing, gaslighting all over again. DH came home and apologised unreservedly for his lack of support over his parents and thier bullying. But they are his parents and although I am self-confessed bossy - I am not a bully and do not dictate to people what they can and can't do.

Even before I finished my opening post I had already answered the AIBU in my head, no and yes.

I think you are perhaps overthinking it a little. It's only a Christmas card. Your DM probably just writes it with all the other cards, and your PIL probably opens the cards, reads it, then puts it on the shelf with all,the others. They both probably don't give it more than a passing thought, and certainly don't consider it a sign of taking sides.

If I'm honest OP, I'm not ever so keen on your use of terms such as gaslighting, emotional abuse and bullying. They're very emotive and powerful terms.

You've given examples of their behaviour to illustrate your point, but whilst they may have been annoying, out of order and make you want to bloody scream, what they've done isn't that bad. I'm basing that on what you've said.

I also think it's up to your mother if she wants to send cards.

Well its up to your mum really. Interesting that you don't t get on with your pils and also have a problem with your sisters pils and are suggesting your mum stops/ reduces contact with both. I can't see too much in your list tbh but I get that you have to be there.

Are people reading the same thread as me? How are the things the OP describes NOT emotional abuse/gaslighting etc?

I am not a bully and do not dictate to people what they can and can't do

Aren't you trying to stop your mum sending cards? And trying to get her to stop having contact with your DS's PiL?

My mum is a prolific xmas card sender. DH and I and after discussion my family are NC with MIL.

If my mum, as she once suggested she might, sent xmas cards to MIL that would have an effect on my relationship with my mum. In our case it could provoke a reaction from MIL than could compromise our and the DC's safety - my mum hadn't thought it through.

It isn't a case of saying who someone can be friends with. Its observing anothers behaviour and being uncomfortable with their life choices and making adjustments in your own behaviour towards them as a result.

Why should they ever stop treating you like shit when you Dh and your own mother don't actually do anything. Your Dh is still unsupportive as he takes your children to see people that are horrible to you and you allow it.

Yes it's all very well saying your mum is mad at them but she can't be that mad if they are still exchanging pleasant seasonal cards. She is not supporting you. When your DC get older and some one bullies them are you going to send them a Xmas card too?

I've been NC With mil for two years. I understand what your feeling. I've just stopped dd going to see her because her contempt for me oozes off her and I'm not having child around some one like that. How will you know if they say a thing to your kids? I seen mil talk trash to nieces and nephews and they would not tell their mother because of the absolute shit storm it would create.

Be very careful sending your children round there because people like this are very good at the slow drip of poison.

Also your mum says she doesn't tell you who to be friends with. Are they friends??

Older people have weird rules and etiquette about sending Christmas cards, along with all sorts of other stuff, that people of our generation can't get their head round.

I don't send christmas cards to anyone any more. My PIL think this is really rude. They cards to people they met on holiday several years ago and all sorts of randoms.

So my verdict it - it's nothing personal. It's a generational thing. I suspect your mum feels some sort of social obligation to send your PIL a Christmas card, and that's all. She see it differently to you.

She possibly sends cards to loads of people she doesn't like So she should be allowed to continue if she wants.

noeuf I don't have a problem with my sister's PIL. My sister has a problem with her PIL.

First you can take exception to my use of terms such as gaslighting, emotional abuse and bullying. No one in my RL who knows my PIL has any trouble with any of these terms, and I've learned them from people trying to explain my difficulties to me.

Did I not make it plain in my OP that for brevity I didn't write the essay. The one with the little digs and big lies and everything in between. Perhaps I shouldn't have given examples without the essay.

How about the kitchen fitter who wouldn't set foot in the house to finish the work unless he could guarantee FIL would not be present because of the level of nastiness aimed at DH and myself? FIL was snarling at DH calling him pathetic, useless and stupid while they 'worked happily' together on a task. DH is so conditioned to this that he didn't even hear it. The main builder had no end of trouble with FIL turning up and trying to change our plans to what he thought we should have done.

What about FIL smacking my then 2.5 year old for being nothing more than a 2.5 YO and then turning and smirking at me and denying it to DH (conditioned to believe him) and saying that he hadn't and I was such a liar, always trying to get him into trouble.

But I'm kind of accepting that my DM sends the cards. It's just cards, she wants no other contact with them. I was just shocked finding out that she was sending cards to them.

She's a card sender

I think the op is bring narisstic thinking that her own mother should take sides in a squabble with inlaws.

Most people's parents are not perfect, but then most children are not perfect either. You can choose your friends, but not your relations. Inlaw relationship often have to be worked at and a bit of tolerance is needed on both sides. The behaviour you describe is annoying rather than criminal. It's not reason for going non contact with close relatives.

Maybe the op needs to think long and hard about her own behaviour. It is not her place to tell her mother who she can be in contact with.

First
you can take exception to my use of terms such as gaslighting, emotional abuse and bullying

Oh right. I'll stick to 'not being every so keen on' if that's okay.

Did I not make it plain in my OP that for brevity I didn't write the essay

Your FiL sounds very unpleasant. But this is AIBU, so not everyone will agree with you. You are getting the range of polite, considered opinions that I assume you are seeking.