To think its a no brainer to renationalise British Steel

[feellikeahugefailure]

We need steel, it's just being killed by cheap dumping. Would be foolish to let it go under and not produce any steel in the country.

Also the mistakes with remploy show that it will probably cost more in benefits if the business close. Not to mention more long term affects on mental health from people that can't ever get back into work.

Would decimate the local area, not just the workers but the knock on affect of the workers not spending their money in the local area. One pound earnt could be spent 10 times.

How did the politicians let it get into such a complex mess?

I don't know about that. they're are mere politicians and they are pretty helpless to prevent cheaper imports from China! we cant stop people from buying a cheaper raw materials. This is just a big version of any company that goes under as their product is no longer viable.

Blockbusters, Woolworths etc

The U.S. prevents cheap steel being dumped onto its steel market by applying a 240% tariffs on imported steel

it seems from the lawyer that Sky were interviewing that the EU stops us doing the same or subsidising our steel industry. We would need EU permission to do do.

If, as someone has suggested down thread, that Cameron was partly to blame for getting us into this mess then it just proves he does not have the vision necessary to understand the effect of the decisions he is making at EU level.

springinto They do not - they are looking at it, but last time they tried, more jobs were lost in associated industries than were saved in steel. It will also cause huge issues with automotive profits, with Ford and GM forced to pay more for steel than foreign car companies.
Tariffs do not and never have benefitted a country.

Indeed! Why did we bail out the banks but can't do the same for Steel, Coal etc. the industries which formed the backbone of this country. No money in it for the fat cats methinks!

I think we need to keep as much of our industry as possible because one day China will implode. I'm not sure exactly in which way but there will be an uprising of it's people or they will run out of natural resources to make all the stuff they are making at such a rate but either way, the nation is unsustainable in it's current form. Don't know when but it will happen. And with their dodgy human rights why do we cosy up with them so much? They are a nation of great people governed by some seriously dodgy ones.

One thing about imposing taxes on Chinese imports is that for the ceramics industry, when they created an anti-dumping tax, corruption and the old boy's networks in China meant that certain producers were exempt from the tax, so all it did was harm SME-level business in China, but without stemming the flow of ceramics into the UK (ceramics in this case means the white plates etc. that are shipped to Stoke on Trent for "hand decorating" so that you think you are buying British).

So in theory, the 56% anti-dumping tax applied to all ceramics factories in China. Except for a very small number of factories, who were exempt from it (i.e. the factory owners with the deepest pockets & the most influence in govt.). And then about 300 factories, to whom a tax of just 18% applied (obv. favoured, but less influential). Then the rest of the factories, who got no tax relief at all, but who paid through the nose to funnel their invoicing through the factories who were exempt, so that they could carry on exporting to the UK and not go out of business overnight.

If anti dumping taxes are to work then the whole EU needs to sign up, and there can be NO tax exemptions on steel imports into the EU, whether from China or not.

it seems from the lawyer that Sky were interviewing that the EU stops us doing the same or subsidising our steel industry. We would need EU permission to do do.

Which, apparently, the UK alone vetoed.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-accused-betrayal-after-7344784

Our heavy manufacturing industries are outdated and not cost effective on the world stage.

We need to have some sort of think tank to really figure out long term investment in areas like those effected in the midlands and Wales which will secure future employment for generations. Build service industries and research hubs which will mean investment and better education but they will need to be heavily subsidised which I am sure most people would be happy to do rather than patching up the sinking ship that it is now.

This is no where near comparable to the banking crisis which really would have effected every household in the UK if the government hadn't stepped in. It's not about lining certain people's pockets and fat cats its about economics.

Again the banks is an entirely separate issue and you need to take of your partisan glasses, they didn't want to - the Labour government only nationalised Northern Rock when it looked like a serious run was about to take place. They prevented Barclay's from merging with Lehman Brothers because of fears that it would need state provision, and pushed Lloyds to take on HBOS and only stepped in when it looked like the whole credit system was going into systemic shock and you wouldn't be able to get cash out of an ATM.

Bringing a country to its knees is slightly different to a globalisation issue, Im not in favour of the results of the banking crisis but you cannot compare the 2.

Asking for support on an unproductive business model isn't long term thinking, the minute China starts raising prices Brazil, India and others are all waiting in the wings to undercut them, so we either pump a lot of money in and upgrade the steelworks onto more modern technology/automation and save around 40% of the job losses or we move into a different area.

Some things should be nationalised and whilst steel is strategically important, in 2014 the UK bought 0.003% of the global steel supply. 5 million metrics tonnes (give or take) out of the 1670 million metric tonnes produced. So its not as important as you may think.

Will this affect Aston Martin's proposed new factory in Wales?

if we were allowed to use Brutish made steel in British projects such as HS2 we would have a market for domestically produced steel.

EU competition rules prevent this.

Which, apparently, the UK alone vetoed.

True. That nice Mr Cameron who wants to keep us in the EU so we can be safer, stronger and better.

Don't forget to vote for Mr Cameron's Remain in the EU option, so he can say his hands are bound by the EU.

Which, apparently, the UK alone vetoed.

Which could have been argued would have lost us jobs further down the line to prop up german and italian steel plants, there are plenty of western aligned countries where we can and do buy steel from at the fraction of the cost of making in the UK.

Perhaps it was vetoed because of the negative impact tariffs could have had on other, more economically important industries like automotive and aerospace?

Lots to debate about the extent to which we rely on other countries, and specific countries, for things like fuels, energy, metals, food etc. The Americans (history of protectionism) for example seem to be seeking to become more self sufficient in energy production, including with fracking etc.

I am pretty worried about the proposed nuclear plant in Somerset for a whole load of reasons!

Yes we could make HS2 much more expensive for the taxpayer by buying only British steel - not sure why that would be good.
Other nationalized industries made so much profit in the past and made such cheap and wonderful products, I don't know why we don't re-nationalize everything.
Oh to live back in the 70's.

Which could have been argued would have lost us jobs further down the line to prop up german and italian steel plants, there are plenty of western aligned countries where we can and do buy steel from at the fraction of the cost of making in the UK

That assumes that you will always be able to sorce steel from western aligned countries.

What happens if they decide not to sell us steel?
What happens in time of war when you cannot physically import this steel?

Or are you assuming we never be involved in another war?

In which case we may as well totally disarm now and save the cost of our defence

This is what the minister Sajid Javid said in the Commons recently:

Punitive tariffs and sky-high duties always seem like a nice, easy solution, but the truth is that excessive, protectionist trade tariffs simply do not work. Although they provide a short-term boost for the protected sector, they inevitably cause long-term harm to the wider economy. They drive up prices...
Artificially over-inflating the price of imported steel would have a hugely damaging effect on British companies further up the manufacturing chain. Of course, I would like to see such companies using British steel rather than cheaper, lower quality imports, and let me take this opportunity to urge them to do so. However, forcing them to buy British steel by making imported steel prohibitively expensive is not the way to make that happen. Higher duties on imports of raw materials eventually mean higher prices paid by manufacturers and consumers alike, putting countless more jobs at risk...
no single country can choose to change a tariff; we must work collectively through the EU rules.Removing the lesser duty rule would have an impact. We want to address the impact of unfair trade without imposing disproportionate costs on the wider economy. We want to create that level playing field rather than a protectionist barrier. As I have already said—I am happy to say it again—where the evidence suggests it, I want to see the highest appropriate duties imposed. On rebar, which the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) mentioned earlier, the UK industry is asking for tariffs of 20% to 30%. We support that and think that the evidence backs it, but I will never call for any action that could damage British business and hurt British consumers.

Oh to live back in the 70's.

Looks like the debate has turned into partisan bollocks again...

The minister's comments did not allude to any national security/defence issues.

We are getting bogged down in economics when the fact remains that steel manufacturing capability is part of our critical national Infrastructure.

There are some things that are just too important to hope that they available when you need them. Steel is one of those things.

If forcing the white elephant and unnecessary HS2 to use British steel in order to save British steel making capability, then so be it.

We are letting economics rule our decision-making here. We can afford to subsidise steel production and we should

the fact remains that steel manufacturing capability is part of our critical national Infrastructure.

So is the expensive electricity that makes UK steel more expensive. And given how that's on a knife edge ...

to lose one critical infrastructure may be unfortunate. To lose two starts to look like criminal incompetence carelessness

The minister's comments did not allude to any national security/defence issues.

Javid is not the Minister of Defence or Home Secretary so he would have been exceeding his brief if he had done.

It doesn't need a Minister to tell me that no steel = no defence.

Electricity costs are unnecessarily inflated by Ed Miliband's Greenhouse Tax that raise costs by 4%

Germany has ditched its nuclear plants. It seems to mange

Even Italy thinks having steel production capability is important

We are just writing one long surrender note - from a Tory Government.

Incredible.

Germany's power companies are reporting record losses though

The minister's comments did not allude to any national security/defence issues.

Germany evidently thinks it's a price worth paying to retire their nuclear reactors.

We don't think subsidising steel is a price worth paying yo retain steel making capability

Why do we need a Chinese built nuclear power plant.It sounds like a ridiculously expensive deal. Why do t we just buy in power from another country that can produce it more cheaply , from one of one of those western countries that will also be supplying our steel?

Or is the ability to generate our own power still part of our critical national infrastructure?