To not leave EBF baby with MIL?

[Tallulahoola]

DS is 4 months and EBF. He is a total bottle refuser. I would like him to take a bottle so DH can do the odd feed but tbh I don't really mind because I had such a miserable time trying to BF my DD (who is now 3) including hospital visits because she wasn't putting on weight so now I just feel relieved to have a baby who BFs well. I figure he will take a bottle eventually once I've weaned him she says hopefully

So MIL is coming to stay. She is very needy with DD and DS, wanting to spend every second with them when she's here (and I do mean every second - she once burst into tears when DD said she wanted to walk to the corner shop with me for all of 5 minutes instead of play another game of dollies with MIL).

DD is invited to a birthday party when MIL is here. I told DH and was fully expecting him to say she couldn't go because he humours MIL a lot, but surprised me by saying she could. Then he said "It'll be nice for you because you can leave DS at home with me and MIL while you go to the party." I said that no, I was planning to take DS with me (I have done this to other parties, other mums with babies do too and it's no problem) because we will be away for 3-3.5 hours at a time of day when DS feeds every 2 hours so he needs to be with me. DH kept saying it would be fine. I said DS would scream the place down because he'd be hungry and DH said "Oh, my mum would like to soothe a crying baby."

So I said we would make a concerted effort in the next few days to offer DS a bottle, and if he starts taking one then of course I can leave him. Cue DH giving him a bottle and of course it got refused. He kept trying to give it and DS got more and more upset DH then said "Right, he's not getting fed until he drinks out of a bottle, we're going to wait until he's so hungry he hasn't got a choice" and took him out in the buggy. By the time they came back DS hadn't eaten for more than 4 hours, refused the bottle again and by this point was hysterical. It took me ages to calm him down enough to BF.

DH never behaves like this normally and has never cared either that DS is EBF. He is doing this because he knows MIL will be distraught at spending 3 hours without a child on her lap. I know the alternative is for DH to go to the party and me stay at home with MIL and DS but DD always wants me to go to parties with her. And I don't want to take MIL with us because that would be odd and also I'd like to step out of the house without her for a bit. And I'm not precious about DS, when she's here she can spend plenty of time with him.

I genuinely don't know AIBU to feel I shouldn't leave him? I suppose the worst that can happen is that he is hungry and cries for 90 minutes, which isn't the end of the world. But I would be at the party worried about him and imagining him crying.

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

This is appalling:

"I said DS would scream the place down because he'd be hungry and DH said "Oh, my mum would like to soothe a crying baby.""

This response shows that your husband hasn't quite realised that DS is a real (tiny) human being who will be really upset, physically uncomfortable, and scared - all completely avoidable - and not a plaything for his mother. It doesn't matter if she likes some pathetic challenge. He's your child, he's your priority, you feed him. Seriously that sentence alone would have me going ballistic.

I have seen this before in "the older generation" (not my mum or MIL thank goodness) who think that babies are playthings for them. My mum went out with a friend and her fractious grandchild and, having tried lots of things, wondered aloud if the little girl was upset and not enjoying playing because it was her nap time. the grandmother said "yes she usually sleeps now but I thought it would be nice to go to the beach." My mum was disappointed that the grandmother who was supposedly looking after the baby didn't care if it was tired or miserable and was knowingly denying it rest time. Anyway I have no idea whether these women were the same with their own babies, because acknowledging babies as people was not fashionable then, or whether they used to get it but have since forgotten.

However, this is irrelevant because your DH is an actual parent right now and needs to see his son as 1. a real life human, and 2. an actual priority among other real live humans, because he is his child

[wizzywig]

Pls stop feeding, cleaning, caring for your husband until he learns to respect yours and your babys feelings.

[toomanypasswords]

My DD2 is now 15 months and has always been a bottle refuser. Even now she will only drink milk of breastfed. There is no way I would have left her when that little for that long. MILs wish to comfort a crying baby does not trump your baby's right to be fed when he needs it. DD2 ended up coming pretty much everywhere with me for first 7 or 8 months; yes it might have been nice to have had a bit more time on my own or just with DD1 but it doesn't work like that with EBF babies. Good luck!

[PercyPigTheSecond]

Yanbu. I would be really upset and angry with your dh for his treatment of your baby, it was cruel and unnecessary. Your baby needs and relies on you to feed him and you shouldn't feel pressured to stop doing so in order for ridiculous MIL to feed him.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

If it's an issue of who is going to get distraught, a young baby or a grown adult, I'd say the adult will just have to get over it.

[sunnydayinmay]

I am quite tolerant with my MIL, but I agree - this is worth an argument! Your babies are your children, and you decide how and when they are fed. You explain before hand that you will be taking the children to a party, and that you will be out for three hours etc. Then you just let her tantrum if necessary, but DON'T BACK DOWN.

Honestly, you have to be assertive now, otherwise this will never end.

What's she going to do when they are older, and want to spend time alone (ie on Minecraft or XBox, or out with friends, or in the rooms with a book). You need to stick up for their needs now.

[Singsongsungagain]

This is awful. What shocking behaviour your dh exhibited. I am astounded that you haven't gone ballistic about it. Your MILs needs do not trump your children's. Don't let her or your dh suggest they should.
If you are determined re the bottle then I managed it (because I was going back to work when dd2 was 6 months old) by bfeeding first to take the edge off, then quickly swapping. Warmed milk and a 'Closer to Nature' bottle did the trick but seriously- if you don't need to wean then why bother??

[AugustaFinkNottle]

Have you had any involvement with a local breastfeeding support group, or the NCT? I'd suggest you tell your DH to discuss his interesting theories on baby feeding with them and see whether he can persuade them. Or would your HV support you on this?

[Zaurak]

Christ on a bike.

Look, you need to put some boundaries down with your mil and make sure your Dh knows the score. It's appalling for him to make your baby so hungry he screams just to appease a grown woman.

That mil didnt spend time with you pre baby arrival is telling - your Dh is willing to sacrifice the wellbeing of a tiny baby so he can avoid dealing with his mummy issues. I would be absolutely fucking furious at this.

Perhaps you can ram it through his thick skull that whilst tiny babies are not capable of emotional manipulation, his mother certainly is.

Boundaries, now! She'll tantrum, but it's worth it. Let your Dh deal with the fallout, and you need to make sure that the fallout from treating you or the baby badly outweighs that from pissing mummy off, or you are in for many years of this shit.

[Tallulahoola]

Thank you all for your replies. DH has been making me feel lately that I've somehow turned DS into a clingy baby by BF from the start (actually I did give him bottles sometimes in the first couple of weeks when I was worried I wasn't producing enough milk and he took them, but then I stopped and now he won't go back).

Now I'm off to bed because DS is a rubbish sleeper and will be up soon but that's another thread

[GiraffesAndButterflies]

she wanted loads of kids but for various reasons only ended up with one and as a result got fixated on the idea of grandchildren

Is this what's making your DH be such a fucking arse? Because he has known for years that the way to his mother's heart is through grandchildren? If she was as bad with him as with your DD (not relevant to your AIBU I know, but appalling behaviour nevertheless) then your DH has probably had years of his childhood feeling a) like he has to make his mother happy, b) that he by himself is not enough to do that, and therefore c) that your MIL "needs" grandchildren.

So I agree with everyone else: YwouldBVVVU to give in over this. And remind your DH that your DC are not your MIL's playthings.

[airforsharon]

mil will keep being melodramatic because she knows HE'LL give in!

This is a really good point.

And if your MIL would really (and I appreciate your DH said this, not her) prefer your ds to be hungry and upset for sometime just so she can 'soothe' him, then there's something not quite right with her.

[Singsongsungagain]

Your son isn't a clingy baby- he's a baby. He's been on this earth for 4 short months and he needs and wants you- his mum.

[Writerwannabe83]

Your husband took the baby out for that long and let it scream in hunger?

What a vile, vile thing to do.

If my DH had ever dared do something like that to me and our baby and I would have hit the absolute roof.

[GiraffesAndButterflies]

DH has been making me feel lately that I've somehow turned DS into a clingy baby by BF from the start

Clinginess is common among ALL children. Except at 4mo, it's not "clinginess", it's just normal.

[PestilentialCat]

I've just read your post about the histrionics about the picture when your DD was born - really, DH ought to have sent the picture to his aunt & let her know that DM wanted to be there when the email was opened, instead of running around like a lunatic. This is not normal behaviour. his or hers

[Wolpertinger]

Is your DH just v v excited that MIL wants to spend time with him? Of course she doesn't really, she sounds like a terrible mother who until the GCs arrived would ignore him from one year to the next, she's only interested in the babies. But this is the only way he can get any attention from her at all and so he must pander to her every need and ensure you know she is always right.

I feel a bit sorry for him really, he's lost in FOG - Fear Obligation Guilt.

[Blu]

OP, this is seriously, seriously dysfunctional behavior- and you are allowing yourself to get caught up
In it.

1. Having had difficulties bf your DD you are now interfering with your 4month old baby's settled, happy feeding by trying to introduce a bottle that the baby doesn't want, and all for the benefit of your MIL?
   
2. You allowed your H to take your baby away for 4 hours, deliberately withholding food?
   
3. You are actually considering that leaving a tiny baby to cry in hunger and distress for an hour and a half, TO SATISFY MIL is 'not the end of the world'?
   

Good grief: you and your DH are grown ups. Parents. It is your first and foremost job and duty to look after the interests of your young children.

And as for this bottle business: the WORST time to try and introduce a bottle is when the baby is hungry, and not inclined to have any truck with a mouthful of rubber that he has no experience that tells him this will hel hunger. The best time is toward the end of a feed before he is too full and sleepy, but not too hungry and distressed to have a little break from the breast. Many babies (mine incl) just do not reslise that a bottle will sort out their need for milk. But no matter: why do it at all just to appease your unhinged MIL and pathetic (and cruel) H?
And your H needs to give himself a good once over and put himself in touch with his common sense if he thinks 4 month old babies play manipulation games.

You need to stand up for your baby here, OP, because sadly his father is more focussed on the needs of his toxic mother.

I would tell him to back off, stop using your kids like a sacrifice to his mother's issues or you will be taking both children to a Travelodge for the duration of her visit.

[HeteronormativeHaybales]

I think GiraffesandButterflies and Wolpertinger have hit the nail on the head. Your dh is so desperate for his mother's appeasement and approval he will do what he did to your poor baby. Honestly, I don't think I could get past what he did, whatever the dynamic with his mother.

I would be telling him, first, he NEVER does anything like that again, and second, he backs you up completely whn his mother is here, or he will be leaving with her. And mean it.

You should not be trying to make your baby take a bottle purely for his mother.

[Friendlystories]

What your DH did to try to 'force' your baby to take a bottle has made me feel anxious so god knows what it must have done to you at the time, that's really not on and a completely disproportionate reaction to the idea of his DM not getting her own way. I would be pointing out, none too gently, that your DC's welfare should always come before the petulant demands of his mother and that if he can't make them a priority he will have a lot more to worry about than her occasional hissy fits, he has to live with you day in day out so it's in his interests to keep you happy rather than her! I would not back down over taking DS with you to the party and I think it sends an important message if you stick to your guns, people like your MIL can only continue using emotional blackmail to get what they want if you let them so I would make a point of saying no every time she makes an unreasonable demand regarding your DC, eventually she will learn it's pointless and that you are in charge when it comes to the children however much of a fuss she kicks up. This goes way beyond this one visit, it's an opportunity to nail your colours to the flag and let her know she can't manipulate you and that you won't allow her to manipulate DH. I think you need to point out to your DH that you're disgusted disappointed that he would be willing to put the prospect of his DM being upset above his baby's need to be fed. I honestly don't see how he can possibly think his DM's feeling should come before something so basic and essential or how he can even contemplate allowing his baby to cry for 90 minutes for no good reason, both he and your MIL should be ashamed of themselves for even considering it.

[Italiangreyhound]

Tallulahoola I am sorry but your husband is an idiot, an idiot for making his baby cry with hunger and an idiot for risking his life driving miles on no sleep to give his mother a photo of her new baby!

He needs to now STOP this shit and grow up. He needs to communicate clearly to your MIL that on a certain day you and both children will be out for XX hours at a party. A party for little kids, babies and mums (in this case). She could put her feet up, watch telly or bake a cake etc but she won't be with the grandkids for those few hours.

No arguments or chats and no hysterics.

In your shoes I would stop trying to get ds to take a bottle. If he does start taking a bottle it might interfere with breast feeding. In a few months you can introduce solids and then he can go to a cup at a certain time. Having the skill to drink from a bottle is not essential - at that age!

Please do make your husband aware that really this is about more than a one off party or your son drinking from a bottle. It is about his inability to take your wishes, or the needs of his son, seriously and his inability to stand up to his mum.

I totally agree with others, this is the early days and best to make things clear now. It would be distressing for your dd to know she 'had' upset Grandma in this way and there is no way to ensure this won't happen again unless you lower MIL expectations that she will get her own way (by crying) and ensure she handles her own emotions around the children, for their sake. Bit of honestly between your husband and his mother about what is and is not acceptable could make things much better all round.

YANBU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Italiangreyhound]

her new baby grandchild!

[Tallulahoola]

At the time DH was trying to force a bottle into him I was trying to hold it together because DD was in the room so I didn't want her to see me crying or yelling at her father. And I think afterwards I managed to convince myself it was ok because within 10 minutes of me feeding him he was smiling away as if there was no harm done. But it's not ok, is it? It's shit. If he tries it again or even raises the subject of leaving DS behind then I will tell him very firmly that it's not happening.

[coconutpie]

My blood is actually fucking boiling reading your post. Your husband is an absolute fucking dick for what he did to your poor DS. He deliberately starved a 4 month old baby just so his stupid bitch of a mother could give him a bottle because she's so fucking needy and selfish? They are both dicks, the pair of them. I would have hit the roof. Your husband, I'm not even going to refer him as a DH because there's nothing "dear" about his behaviour unless DH refers to dickhead needs to get his priorities straight and put the needs of his 4 month old DS first and not his crazy mother. Forget the bottles, you don't need them and after this episode I would just inform your husband that it is no longer up for discussion. You are not pandering to his mother's shite any longer and you will bring DD to the party, with DS and you will not be leaving DS at home. And I would seriously be telling him to cop the fuck on over his disgusting behaviour over starving his poor little son.

Sorry, I know my post is angry but Jesus I'm livid for you .

[Gaspard]

When babies get hungry, it's an urgent issue for them and the longer they stay hungry the more distressed they get. 90 minutes of hunger can only be torture. There's no planet on which this is ok.